Interesting real life stats on boys/girls sports

[Ozgirl75]

My 8 year old son recently competed in a cross country event. This was for around 25 schools, each of whom did their own cross country at school and then sent the fastest 5 runners to compete in this event.
This is all primary, being age 8/9, 10, 11 and 12.
I received the results today. I would have assumed that because the 8/9 and even 10 year olds were well below puberty, that boys and girls were similar speed runners.
Well they weren’t at all.
My son came 54th in the boys, running 2k in 9minutes 24 seconds. In the girls race this would have put him in 7th place.
The fastest boy was 40 seconds faster than the fastest girl. And this is 8/9 year olds.
This is relevant as the top 15 runners go on to trial at another event where the fastest runners of that run for the state and then eventually, Australia (obviously the pool gets smaller and smaller!)
My interests firstly are, why? Why are Pre pubescent boys significantly faster runners than Pre pubescent girls? For example, my son isn’t really even a runner, he’s just an all rounder and plays lots of sport, but he would have finished one place behind a girl at his school who already runs for NSW (and obviously runs and trains pretty hard).
And secondly - wow. If this is the difference before puberty, what will the difference be like after? (Rhetorical question). It makes me see even more strongly before that sport should be segregated for the absolute protection of girls’ sports and scholarships.

The critical thing IMO is to then encourage children to practise the other skills as they develop them rather than reinforcing those early differences

you do have to be careful, though, not to oppress a child's natural inclination just because it does not conform to one's beliefs about such things.

Watched a reality TV programme a couple of years ago in which the mother of a young boy decided she was going to bring him up gender neutral. so he had long hair and was given typical 'girl toys' and discouraged from being his more natural active self. It was very uncomfortable to watch.

What she was actually doing was imposing opposite sex gender expectations on him in a bid to prove that boys and girls were the same, or that as a boy he could be soft and nurturing, rather than rough and tumble.

Oh yes 100% Just but there can be a tendency for children to be stuck in what they develop first at, particularly in the UK where we have cultural beliefs in natural talents compared to other cultures which put more focus on / trust in working to develop skills.

@WarriorN

I started a thread on more real life sex stats in sport here, really very pertinent ones: (and from the US.)

Teen girls have double concussion risk of boys www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4230537-teen-girls-have-double-concussion-risk-of-boys

Thanks Warrior. The concussion risks of severe concussion for girls are so much higher than boys in similar accidents because boys have much stronger neck muscles. This is discussed repeatedly every year on my daughter's ski team, which is a mixed sex team for organizing/events/coaching/fundraising, but same sex for races.

I find this type of sport - where girls and boys interact daily and only separate for competition a good way to allow trans kids to feel welcomed but still prevent trans boys unfairly taking medals from girls.

However, nobody showers or changes communally on a ski team (maybe some do, but not where we live), so that isn't an issue with this sport.

The critical thing IMO is to then encourage children to practise the other skills as they develop them rather than reinforcing those early differences

Also to encourage and nurture what they are good at or interested in.

My dd’s school ran after school ballet classes. Predictably small girls in pink frilly shit- seriously is everyone clueless about ballet, it’s fucking hard work! There were about 3 boys that wanted to join, but parents wouldn’t sign the consent as it was a “girl” activity.

We still haven’t moved on from Billy Elliot. If boys dance it’s street or breakdance when they’re older, boys in ballet is still a rarity. Shame when it is actually a really good base for football or any sport they move on to.

e UK where we have cultural beliefs in natural talents compared to other cultures which put more focus on / trust in working to develop skills.

Can you tell me more about this? Any links? I get very fed up with the fatalistic view about talent here, but I haven’t read anything about it.

I take on board some feminist issues.
But draw a line at girls would have the same strength as boys, if only they were brought up the same, treated the same, etc etc. That has always been patently untrue.

mobile.twitter.com/boysvswomen/status/1388164248019275777

14 year old boys beating Women's High Jump World Record.
No difference at all between the sexes?

I take on board some feminist issues.
But draw a line at girls would have the same strength as boys, if only they were brought up the same, treated the same, etc etc. That has always been patently untrue.
But feminists don't think girls are the same as boys!

I take on board some feminist issues.
But draw a line at girls would have the same strength as boys, if only they were brought up the same, treated the same, etc etc. That has always been patently untrue

I’m a feminist, and very much of the opinion that gender stereotyping is mainly societal.

However I don’t think anyone has said that there aren’t physical difference. Men and boys are stronger, have different centres of gravity, different muscle composition.

Like sex, those physical differences are unchangeable. Which is why many feminists are GC, and think tranwomen should not compete in womens sports.

The “differences” I refer to are the ones that can be changed. Men can make good nurses or carers, women can be good at maths and be physicists. Women can play football, men can like ballet and musicals without being gay.

The “pink brain, blue brain” thinking. Liking sparkles does not make you a girl etc. Those likes and dislikes are formed by society and can be challenged and changed. Physicality can not.

@MoltenLasagne

So much of this is about how much bell curves overlap between boys and girls at different ages. Growing up I genuinely believed that any differences were entirely due to nurture, and that if we addressed socialisation there'd be no difference in the two bell curves. Now I realise it's not as simple as that.

Possibly socialisation is also related to differing development timelines. At population level boys tend to develop gross motor skills before girls, and fine minor skills after girls which may explain play preferences as children gravitate to things they are better at. The critical thing IMO is to then encourage children to practise the other skills as they develop them rather than reinforcing those early differences.

I too believed in tabula rasa. But life experience teaches you that the differences among people are very real and not always able to be overcome even by hard work.

It’s humbling to realise humanity is still at the mercy of nature.

It’s best not to lie to ourselves or other people about this.

I've never understood the extremes 'nature v nurture' positions (on anything) when clearly it's a mixture of both.