This feels really unsettling

[CroydianSlip]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-56860846

I can't quite unpick my feelings on this but I read the mitigation speech and agree with a lot of it.

Very different court judgement and tone of editorial to this also tragic accidental drowning.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/12/01/baby-drowned-hot-tub-mother-working-home-inquest-hears/

This is so sad.

This is probably tearing her apart so I do feel some sympathy, but you never leave a baby unattended in the bath. Basically the first rule of parenting. Especially not for nearly five minutes.

I agree it was a tragic accident but I think she was being neglectful, albeit inadvertently.

Sorry, I missed your message about the mitigation speech and I haven't read that, so maybe I don't have the full facts and shouldn't have commented.

Tragic accident. No way should she have got a custodial sentence. It was dumb, not criminal. She deserves compassion and sympathy not vengeance. I fucking despair.

Hmmmm, second one leaving 2 18 month olds alone for a 2 hour conference call would be to me far more neglectful than the first. But one would seem to be a younger likely less socio economically stable mother...

Both are tragic. Both avoidable and yes with an element of blame. But she must be destroying herself and I don’t see how prison helps here?

Yet you can wilfully rape and beat a woman and walk away with a commuted sentence or community service.

The law is an ass.

Sstrongtn yes the socioeconomic status of the mother (no mention of the father in the first account, so possibly single parent) is likely the reason for the difference between the court's view. Obviously, different judges as well.

Accidental death would be the only right verdict. Sadly, babies and children die in tragic accidents every day. That is enough of a life sentence for the parents to be carrying.

I just feel sorry for her. As if she hasn’t suffered enough.

So tragic.

Sentences given to women for anything always seem disproportionate compared to men.

It's a waste of a much needed jail space, looking at it purely from that perspective.

Both are tragic. Both avoidable and yes with an element of blame

An element of blame? Both deaths could easily have been avoided.

There's no excuse for leaving a child alone in a bath to make a phone call. Why even leave the bathroom? She could have made the call in the bathroom.

There's no excuse for leaving 2 18 months old children unattended for 2 hours.

The second one is just as culpable but I agree she escaped any punishment because of her class.

I wonder if posters saying , oh it's terrible, but accidents happen, would be saying that if it had been 2 negligent fathers?

@AdHominemNonSequitur

Tragic accident. No way should she have got a custodial sentence. It was dumb, not criminal. She deserves compassion and sympathy not vengeance. I fucking despair.

This.

I come down on the tragic accident side as well.

Women are fallible. The same as men. Men in general IME are more reckless/ it'll be fine when it comes to kids.

Unless the child was experiencing ongoing neglect then I really don't think this prosecution or the decision are in the public interest.

How many parents of both sexes take their eye off the ball from time to time?

It's a worrying precedent imo.

I have so many thoughts from a feminist perspective. The point about whether it would be different if it was the fathers makes me wonder why we don't prosecute men who take no responsibility for their children's safety and wellbeing all day, every day all over the country and are completely and utterly accepted by society?!

To think that you can be male and bd violent, intend to cause harm, use weapons, plan assaults, repeat offences over and over again, kill or maim multiple people for eg drink driving and not get a custodial sentence.... But be a vulnerable mother who makes a mistake, albeit a mistake that costs your very vulnerable baby its life, and be deemed more worthy of a custodial sentence just feels so so so wrong.

I'm really torn. I'm the good friend of a mother who's baby drowned because a family member bathed him and left the room. The family member didn't serve time and the mother feels it every single day.

I suppose this is different though because it was the mothers directly who were taking care of the babies. And there's definetely something to be said for the possible class difference in the two cases linked above.

I don't agree with the jail sentence, and the report I read said she was given such a sentence because she hadn't really accepted that she was responsible. She admitted it from the start however, just didn't mention the phone - there seems to have been a focus on the fact that she was on her phone, which is surely irrelevant. She wasn't there with the baby, and what she was doing instead is neither here nor there (unless it was an emergency or something, which she never claimed).

There are just so many cases where awful things happen and in many cases it 'was avoidable' of someone had done some thing they should have done. But, we distinguish between wilful intended harm and we should only use custodial sentences where the public need to be kept safe from a dangerous individual or the convicted person will be rehabilitated in some way. How is jailing this mother appropriate?

I remember reading about a father who had taken his young children swimming and while he was distracted with one child, the other slipped away and was later found drowned in the pool. As far as I remember there was no suggestion the father's lack of attention was going to see him arrested.

If she doesn't serve prison time, then bath 'accidents' become an attractive option for those who actively wish to kill their infants.
However, the severity of treatment in this case compared with the hot tub one is appalling.

I too am shocked at the severity of this woman’s punishment. I know a father whose baby drowned in the bath while he was in there with him, stoned. He fell asleep and the baby slipped under the water. He was not jailed.

Where are all the anti carceral feminists when you need them?

@theThreeofWeevils

If she doesn't serve prison time, then bath 'accidents' become an attractive option for those who actively wish to kill their infants. However, the severity of treatment in this case compared with the hot tub one is appalling.

You may well be right- pour décourager les autres.

The hot tub accident frankly sounds implausible. The mother is in sole charge of two 18 months old children on a very hot day and doesn't think of checking them for over 2 hours?

[quote christinarossetti19]Very different court judgement and tone of editorial to this also tragic accidental drowning.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/12/01/baby-drowned-hot-tub-mother-working-home-inquest-hears/[/quote]
Very odd of the coroner to refer to the baby in this case as his parents’ “most treasured possession”. Possession?!

pour décourager les autres
I can't see any other purpose Simone Perry 's sentence could be seen to serve. So very sad.

I read this earlier and thought that a custodial sentence seemed extreme. There surely must be more than is reported. I feel for her. She will have to live with that decision to take a call in another room for the rest of her life. Unless she was already under social service review for neglectful behaviour why has she received such a harsh punishment? And if she/they were under such review how are the other agencies not under review?

It just seems so wrong. That poor family.

Given that women can be and are being, prosecuted for not doing enough to stop their partner abusing their kids intentionally, how on earth are the fathers of these poor children escaping prosecution, when the mothers aren't, for accidents?