Pronouns and sexual orientation

[InsideNumberNine]

I know there is a lot of discussion at the moment regards pronouns and it got me thinking.

If the purpose of declaring pronouns is to show solidarity to people who may be struggling with their gender identity and therefore, declaring yours helps them to feel accepted before they publicly share theirs, should we be doing this for our sexual orientations too? Should people who are openly gay or lesbian be declaring that in their email signatures to show solidarity to colleagues who are afraid to make their sexual orientation public?

I completely get the need for audio description in the theatre and TV etc. But in meetings? Why do we need to know what the other people look like? It is performative inclusion which helps no-one. And for those who are unhappy or embarrassed about their appearance, how awful to have to describe themselves at the start of every meeting.

@DoorhandlesUnited

Including your Myer Biggs personality type would possibly be more useful and more interesting.

Yes, this!

@newnortherner111

People who are struggling with their gender identity should be respected if they do not want their work colleagues to know. Hence why declaring pronouns should be optional, and respected if declared.

What does ‘respecting declared pronouns’ even mean?

"Respecting declared pronouns" is like crossing yourself and genuflecting when you enter a church.

@TeaAndStrumpets

"Respecting declared pronouns" is like crossing yourself and genuflecting when you enter a church.

AFAIK Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, Buddhists, Hindus, agnostics and atheists are not expected to cross themselves or genuflect when entering a Catholic Church. How interesting that affirmation of a Faith they don't hold is not imposed upon them - and that the era when such affirmation was imposed upon non-Catholics is not considered an era e we want to repeat.

jellyslice indeed!

The whole pronoun in a signature is irrelevant anyway. If you sign off your name as Jane Smith, everyone will refer to you as she/her. John Smith will always be he/him. Even if Jane used to be John, a female name is enough to indicate which pronoun to use.

Only if you're an ordinary person.

If you're Jane-with-penis, you need to tell people how to think and speak once they see or hear you. If you're Jane-who-would-once-have-been-Goth, you need to tell people how to think and speak so that they reinforce how special you are.

Perhaps everyone should also declare their race, age and religion?

And whether or not they like Marmite.

Yes, let's put marmite in signatures as I don't think I want to work with people that don't like marmite.

It's a different thing entirely - it's for visually impaired people who may be attending the meeting, and it's helpful for them.

I don't think it's fair or appropriate to put people on the spot like this. What about people with anxiety?

@titchy

The whole pronoun in a signature is irrelevant anyway. If you sign off your name as Jane Smith, everyone will refer to you as she/her. John Smith will always be he/him. Even if Jane used to be John, a female name is enough to indicate which pronoun to use.

I see your Jane and John and raise you Kim and Sam (or a foreign/rare/unusual name). I have googled folk to find either them, or at least pictures of people with the same first name to get a feeling whether they are f or m. Pronouns make things easier and if someone says their pronouns are "their/them", I will use those, too, just like I will use the name someone introduces themself with, because not to do so would be rude.

If Kim or Sam or Jo or Chris want to add their pronouns because they have a unisex name that's understandable (though if they're female they'd be daft to do so...) but for Jane and John and the majority of other people with single-sex names, to add their pronoun is entirely unnecessary and screams 'look at me I'm so woke'

Googling to find a photo is probably the worse thing you can do if you want to verify someone's pronouns tbh.

@titchy

Googling to find a photo is probably the worse thing you can do if you want to verify someone's pronouns tbh.

what else do you do? I was left in the dark about "Sam" for years until we were in a meeting together. Pronouns or "Mr/Mrs" makes things so much easier...

Gosh, yes, can't foresee any issues at all in creating culture where we put our sexual orientation on everyday documents. Perhaps it would be fun for us to wear little pink triangles too. You know, just to mark us out.