Karen Ingala Smith on 'counting dead trans people'

[ArabellaScott]

Ingala Smith responds to Angela Crawley's point (made in the WESC yesterday) on refuges - describing the difference in patterns of domestic violence/murders for women and transwomen.

Ingala Smith makes what I think is a very clear point that I hadn't seen articulated so clearly before: given the different patterns/circumstances in crime, women need refuges (single sex refuges) to escape partners, but also often to process the experience of being in an abusive relationship. Transwomen's needs are different.

'the evidence suggests that the same services as those under short supply for women would not have saved the lives of most of these trans people. And where fatal violence is concerned, the evidence is that the violence perpetrated against trans people, is not the same violence as that which is perpetrated against women.'

kareningalasmith.com/2021/04/21/counting-dead-trans-people/?fbclid=IwAR3FtFmNL75vCUtYu6JFQ2vWu465W2bAjWNFTF5CKQipUoIyavikIYjdhSk

I love KIS, I think she writes so well and is so full of compassion and integrity. This is one of my favourite pieces by her, on why Nia decided to remain a woman only service and the impossibility of accurately risk assessing a male who identifies as a woman at the point of admission:

kareningalasmith.com/2020/01/20/the-importance-of-women-only-spaces-and-services-for-women-and-girls-whove-been-subjected-to-mens-violence/

"If you expect refuges to accommodate males who identify as trans, [...] you’re asking staff in already under-resourced women’s refuges, to differentiate between:

Transgender people born male who have genuinely experienced men’s violence and have managed to unpick their male socialisation and who will not use their sense of male entitlement or sexism or misogyny to harm, reduce and control women in the refuge and

those transgender people born male who have genuinely experienced violence but are still dripping in male privilege and advantage and who hate or resent women; and

those transgender people born male who are narcissistic perpetrators who have managed to convince themselves (and others) that they are victims , and

those transgender people born male who are seeking validation, which some, if they were self-aware and able to be honest, would recognise as a need that can never be satisfied, and who might prioritise their validation above the needs of women, and

those transgender people born male who are autogynophiles (that’s a male who is sexually aroused by the thought of himself as a female) or other fetishists, and,

finally other men who are pretending to be trans in order to track down a particular woman or predatory men trying to access women in general."

Anyone who doesn't think that the spectrum of "males who identify as women" includes all these different groups listed above needs to seriously get their heads out of their arses. Even 5 minutes on twitter or reddit or even just looking at threads on here will give you numerous examples of males that identify as women who behave in the various ways listed above.

She also did a brilliant webchat here on MN which is so worth reading, especially her final post on what she thinks it would take to overcome MVAWG. It's a sobering read, but an important one.

Anyway, I'm delighted she's been invited to speak at the WEC. Any space that she speaks in is a space that has gained something of value.

This looks like something worthy of more research; I know the ManKind initiative is struggling for funds and wants more research into male domestic abuse. Looking at the statistics gathered by that blog report, at least three of the victims also had risky lifestyle elements (prostitution); another area that is genuinely overlooked and underfunded for both sexes.

However, Ingala point stands; the violence and required solutions are different for women and transwomen. It beggers belief this has to be said.

Karen is fantastic.

I don't see how it serves transwomen well at all to lump them in with women for statistics and analysis purposes. This is where feelings and mantras instead of actual thinking leads us

Exactly, Sunset. It's as if people like Crawley are insisting transwomen should be accommodated within women's refuges despite the fact that this wouldn't necessarily be useful or helpful to transwomen - let alone the women using those refuges. Yet again, it's ideology being argued, rather than listening to people like KIS with extensive experience of the real-life, practical issues.

What a great article. She covers all the important points. This should be discussed widely.

Over and over, we are told transwomen are women.

And over and over, the statistics on aggressive and criminal patterns of behaviour confirm that on average, men do not stop behaving like men when they transition.

This is the absolute crux of the argument over women’s rights and safe spaces and I cannot understand politicians who are unable or unwilling to see what this means for women.

Thanks for sharing OP and thank you Karen Ingala Smith if you're reading this for all you do.

It is so important that women's refuges and spaces for survivors of sexual violence are single sex.

It is so important that women's refuges and spaces for survivors of sexual violence are single sex.

Yes. Primarily for women's needs, but also, going by what KIS says here, for the needs of transwomen.

It is good to have the names of the people who have been murdered and who were also trans in one article.

I didn't realise I could count them on my hands.

Each one is a tragedy and a terrible loss for the people who loved them. And, for society, too.

It is striking that I don't have enough fingers on my hands to even count 10% of the murdered women.

It's so appalling that my elected representatives can't see this. Roll on May 5th.

I saw the excellent Shonagh Dillon speak about her research on this last week (alongside KIS).

It's striking that TRAs, Stonewall et al are pushing for 'inclusive' refuges when hardly any service users actually want this including trans users.

committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/16930/pdf/

What a wonderfully accurate way to describe this issue.

I don't think many fully understand the differences between different people who define them selves as TW and the implications of that in any women's space, but especially women's refuges.

I'd like political parties to be reading that. Eg snp, the greens etc.

Excellent article thank you for sharing OP. Agree, it is absolutely necessary to have clear information about what is happening. More sunlight

I want to be like KIS when I grow up, she's fearless and effective, she puts the points across in a clear way I never could.