Chwarae Teg demonstrates why inclusivity is dangerous and unfair to women

[Shedbuilder]

Chwaroae Teg (Fair Play for Women) is a publicly-funded women's organisation that was captured some time ago and has already been picked up here several times for its reading of equal rights law. I used to live and work in Wales and several of my friends there keep me in touch with events.

This evening CT hosted a Zoom discussion on Gender Equality with representatives of all the main parties. I'll pass swiftly by on the subject of the youth and middle classness of the candidates, and on the constant refrain that we all just need to be kinder and more accepting and everything will be fine.

A couple of women used the Chat facility to ask polite, factual questions about sex, the Equality Act and so on. The Plaid representative, whose party and leader are totally TWAW, gave an impassioned little speech about the awfulness of sexual stereotyping and in response a couple of women in the Chat section asked questions about sexual stereotyping and transgender ideology and concerns about girls who defy sexual stereotypes being told they might be trans. One woman, a youth worker, expressed her concern. Someone else agreed.

Helen from Chwarae Teg intervened to tell them that divisiveness was not allowed. CT, she said, is an INCLUSIVE organisation and hate and. divisiveness are not tolerated. One of the women asked, in the Chat section, if this meant that they were not permitted to express concern about women and girls. She was ejected from the event. No idea what happened to the others involved but they probably got the boot too.

It's a useful example of how inclusivity works against women's interests. Inclusivity was used as a reason to shut down women' valid concerns.

Here's the pronunciation of chwarae in IPA:

Pronunciation
(North Wales, standard) IPA(key): /ˈχwaraɨ̯/
(North Wales, colloquial) IPA(key): /ˈχwarɛ/, /ˈχwara/
(South Wales, standard) IPA(key): /ˈχwaːrai̯/, /ˈχwarai̯/
(South Wales, colloquial) IPA(key): /ˈχwaːrɛ/, /ˈχwarɛ/, /ˈʍaːrɛ/, /ˈʍwarɛ/, /ˈwaːrɛ/, /ˈwarɛ/

and you can look up the IPA key here: en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Welsh_pronunciation

Teg is like in English, but the 'e' is not short.

And a standard pronunciation of 'chwarae' here:
forvo.com/word/chwarae/

Afraid HMJ been forced to go much further than that Gwenhwyfar. She has had to undertake to be 'educated' by an organisation chosen by LGBT members of Plaid, she has 'accepted' that TWAW, TMAM, and non-binary people are valid (??), and she has 'accepted' that WPUK is transphobic. She spoke at their meeting in Cardiff which was the starting point of the campaign against her. They have absolutely broken her.

She may well still know that sex is binary and immutable, and she has been appallingly bullied (with the bullying enabled by Adam Price), but nonetheless she has sold women down the river.

@EarthSight

Maybe it's futile me trying to explain because some are going to mispronounce it as 'chooa-ray' instead of 'chooa-reh'. The 'e' at the end sounds like the 'e' in 'ember'. You have that sound at the beginning and middle of words in English, but I can't think of a one where you have it at the end, hence the tendency to mispronounce it as 'ray' to make it sound more familiar to the English ear.

Let's not lose sight of the reality that for the majority of people in Wales, English is their first language and a lot of Welsh people have what you call an English ear.

Mother of god, can we just for once imagine that there are bigger issues at stake than how to pronounce Chwarae Teg in the various regions of Wales?

@Shedbuilder

Mother of god, can we just for once imagine that there are bigger issues at stake than how to pronounce Chwarae Teg in the various regions of Wales?

Wow. Defensive much!

I'm with you Shed. This post is about the fact that women in Wales, at a hustings event facilitated by a WG-funded women's equality organisation, were thrown out of the webinar for discussing the conflation of sex and gender (politely and reasonably) in the chat.

The event facilitator decided that the conversation was 'divisive and offensive' and removed them from the session.

That's the topic.

Also, look on the bright side@Shedbuilder . These comments are bumping up the thread and get it more traction than it would have got otherwise!

Fair enough @Olderbadger1

@Olderbadger1

Afraid HMJ been forced to go much further than that Gwenhwyfar. She has had to undertake to be 'educated' by an organisation chosen by LGBT members of Plaid, she has 'accepted' that TWAW, TMAM, and non-binary people are valid (??), and she has 'accepted' that WPUK is transphobic. She spoke at their meeting in Cardiff which was the starting point of the campaign against her. They have absolutely broken her.

She may well still know that sex is binary and immutable, and she has been appallingly bullied (with the bullying enabled by Adam Price), but nonetheless she has sold women down the river.

I know her. She can't be broken. She is doing what she has to do to keep her job.

@Olderbadger1

Afraid HMJ been forced to go much further than that Gwenhwyfar. She has had to undertake to be 'educated' by an organisation chosen by LGBT members of Plaid, she has 'accepted' that TWAW, TMAM, and non-binary people are valid (??), and she has 'accepted' that WPUK is transphobic. She spoke at their meeting in Cardiff which was the starting point of the campaign against her. They have absolutely broken her.

She may well still know that sex is binary and immutable, and she has been appallingly bullied (with the bullying enabled by Adam Price), but nonetheless she has sold women down the river.

I assumed that she was threatened with being removed from the regional list if she failed to comply with the demands of the bullies. She has already been pushed into second on the list, so is less likely to retain her seat in the Senedd.

She could have stepped down as a candidate, but why should she have to do this? This was all because of a young person who decided she was transphobic, and after forcing this statement out of her promptly left the party.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4188459-Helen-Mary-Jones-statement-Plaid-cymru-politician-apologises-for-transphobia-and-will-seek-re-education

"She has already been pushed into second on the list, so is less likely to retain her seat in the Senedd."

She's also standing as a constituency MS for Llanelli so could win that.

I didn’t take part in this event for precisely this reason. And had the email about the WEN Wales event today. I won’t be joining that one either.

@HelloDulling

I didn’t take part in this event for precisely this reason. And had the email about the WEN Wales event today. I won’t be joining that one either.

Do join it. I will. Let's ask polite but awkward questions together. We really need to keep the pressure on them. I want there to come a time when Cerys Furlong and her ilk have to issue the kind of grovelling apology for betraying the women of Wales that HMJ was forced to make.

I know a number of women who were at today's event - more are now going to sign up for the Friday session. You can submit questions in advance - even if they aren't selected it makes the point that women are concerned about our sex-based rights, and about GNC kids being encouraged on to a medical pathway by all and sundry.

If we don't attend and we don't speak out they can pretend that we don't exist.

Except when the leader wants a surrogate to carry a baby. ;)
@DicklessWonder you mean that he wouldn't consider using a transwoman to carry his child? Transwomen are women, dontcha know, surely they must be considered. Price will be cancelled anytime soon then.

@Gwenhwyfar Conwy. Looks like the local candidate is as woke as they come.

I hadn’t seen that statement by HMJ until now.
I am shocked. It is like communism, really frightening seeing that.

It is chilling isn't it. Several members of Plaid have written to Adam Price (who oversaw the public humiliation) to complain about the misogyny in Plaid being out of control. As far as I know, none of them have had a reply.

Just catching up with all his now. I’m in Cardiff but was working tonight unfortunately so couldn’t join in. What a shit show. I agree the HMJ is an absolute powerhouse and is doing what she can. She knows what a women is. She also knows she is most useful in the Sennedd

@RoxytheRexy but if HMJ is forced to toe the party line that TWAW (excepting actual women to act as incubators for the party leader), what good will she be as an AS?

No longer a powerhouse at all on this issue.

I'm afraid Plaid have lost my vote while this attitude prevails.

I'm going to have to go against my environmental concerns and a lot of other stuff besides and vote Tory this time - the only party which recognises the differences between sexes.

God help if Labour/Plaid hold power again - we will have the bonkers policies that Scotland are adopting on these issues.

[quote Julietbalcony]@RoxytheRexy but if HMJ is forced to toe the party line that TWAW (excepting actual women to act as incubators for the party leader), what good will she be as an AS?

No longer a powerhouse at all on this issue.

I'm afraid Plaid have lost my vote while this attitude prevails.

I'm going to have to go against my environmental concerns and a lot of other stuff besides and vote Tory this time - the only party which recognises the differences between sexes.

God help if Labour/Plaid hold power again - we will have the bonkers policies that Scotland are adopting on these issues.[/quote]
Looking at previous results for Llanelli, the seat will go to either Plaid or Labour. I'd still vote for her if I lived there. There are a few SNP MSPs who manage to talk sense on this despite the official party line, so it's not impossible. We need some people in the Senedd who aren't completely on board with the woke nonsense, even if they have been temporarily silenced.

@OldCrone I'm not in Llanelli so I don't have that dilemma.

But do you really think HMJ will ever be allowed to state her views? Plaid are worse than Labour with AP in charge - he has no interest in actual women's issues.

I can't see there's any coming back from this for her, she's been forced to sell out, and sell women down the river.

It makes me so sad.

It is incredibly sad. I really want to vote for Plaid, my dd will be voting for the first time and also wants to vote Plaid. I feel the same as you Julietbalcony , there are other issues I care about, such as the environment, and other problems in Wales, yet how can I vote for a party so keen to remove women’s sex based rights ?
Has AP used a surrogate then ?

I agree it’s hard. But I think HMJ is taking the attitude that she can do more good on the inside. And I believe that to be true. She’s a very dedicated women and is most definitely GC.

I’m having a similar voting dilemma. I normally vote Labour or Green. My friend is actually standing for the Greens but she is completely sold on TWAW. We just agree not to discuss it. I’m no AP fan. Though I do like LW. I was very surprised with the comments she came out with. Especially given her background and where she represents