Girls Schools - Will the transgender movement change things?

[Justdowhatyouweretold]

My daughter is going to an all girls school from next year. We didn't choose it specifically because it's an all-girls school. There aren't many private schools to choose from where we live, the other one was an all boys school until the last 10-12 years or so and the ratios are still very much in favour of boys.

It made me wonder whether the whole transgender movement will effect this in the future. Will they be a thing of the past?

It’s something I’ve wondered too.
I hope not. Girls are entitled to their own spaces.

I doubt it will change anything. Girls' schools are a same-sex environment, so all pupils will be female. I guess if a pupil were to declare themselves trans or non-binary, that's fine, because they're still female.

Girls have been shown to perform much better in same-sex schools because they're not dealing with boys' behaviour and male entitlement.

I think this will be interesting given the cohort of young women transitioning. I think it's only a matter of time before there is a case of a girl trying to get into a boy's school. It only takes one of the parents hell bent on affirming to decide their child is entitled to that.

As for the other way round, I am not sure there are quite so many boys transitioning. Of course, the sensible thing would be to send a child believed to be trans to a mixed sex school, but in some areas (where I live is one), almost all of the state schools are single sex, so some may decide to make an issue of it.

I think it's almost inevitable eventually.

I do wonder how that will play out.

Mine is at an all girls private school and I asked the question about admitting trans girls. I also asked about whether they will be teaching gender identity nonsense.

The answer was categorically no.

I've been wondering this. I'm sure single-sex schools will have to face requests from opposite sex trans children for admission to the school, and at some point there will be a court case. Possibly the more interesting question is whether trans boys will try to get into Eton, Harrow, Winchester etc - the big, prestigious boys' public schools. Those schools, after all, are known to be places that give you a massive leg-up into politics, the judiciary etc. If you're a parent, why wouldn't you want the same advantage for your daughter as for your son?

@jeaux90

Mine is at an all girls private school and I asked the question about admitting trans girls. I also asked about whether they will be teaching gender identity nonsense.

The answer was categorically no.

Glad to hear there are some schools where they continue to understand and uphold the sex-based rights of girls and young women.

Two things to remember; children might question how they feel but they cannot legally change their gender; and safeguarding and equality are based on sex, not social gender presentation.

Ha, tell that to girl guiding! Girls who are trans are kicked out, males with the gender identity of a girl, welcomed in.

Just coming back to this - I can't wait for that legal challenge to happen! Because when we ask wealthy men and boys to give up their privilege (Eton, Harrow etc) then they will have the financial resources to put up a robust defence. Plus I bet they won't be called bigots, transphobes etc. And even if they are, they won't care. Rich people aren't going to stop sending their sons to Eton just because someone called them bigots.

@RoyalCorgi

Just coming back to this - I can't wait for that legal challenge to happen! Because when we ask wealthy men and boys to give up their privilege (Eton, Harrow etc) then they will have the financial resources to put up a robust defence. Plus I bet they won't be called bigots, transphobes etc. And even if they are, they won't care. Rich people aren't going to stop sending their sons to Eton just because someone called them bigots.

Quite. Remember that hereditary privilege (so titles and entails, eg Dukedoms) cannot be passed down to a female, or to a female-born person who now identifies as male. The law makers managed to get that exemption down.

My daughters went to a private all girls school. Private schools can admit whoever they like so I doubt it will make any difference.

I don’t think a private girls’ school would admit a trans girl unless very specific (separate changing etc) steps would be taken - which may be practically difficult. There are too many powerful parents who are used to get their way and too much money involved. I would be interested to see how many parents really wanted their daughters to be kind, change and shower and play sports with biological males if they easily could take their daughter and their money elsewhere.

St Paul’s girls school had a number of girls coming out as trans a while ago. Funnily enough the trans boys didn’t want to leave one of the most high performing schools in the country in order to be with their selected gender. That girls’ school was very accommodating to the trans boys (biological females).

I really hope not. I went to an all girls' secondary school and it was a great place to grow and learn away from boys my own age.

My dd is a boarder, but not all girls.
They have a trans person in the girls house, just has a dorm to themselves.
Not sure that this was managed for her, or her own choice.
I can't see how a school could refuse tbh.

A school can refuse because gender isn't a protected characteristic but sex is. Children cannot change sex, however they identify, so schools are free to refuse to admit children that are not the same sex as those the school caters for.
I work in a single sex school, we have significant numbers that identify as trans or non binary, we keep those that were already our pupils. We have not yet been asked to admit a child that was born the opposite sex but identifies as the sex we provide education for.

I thought I'd read that Eton had categorically ruled out ever accepting a transboy, ie a biologically female pupil, but the article below doesn't say that. They are open to the idea of keeping a pupil who transitions while on roll, ie a transgirl. www.theguardian.com/education/2017/nov/11/eton-head-young-men-more-gender-intelligent

I'd be gutted if single-sex schools died out. I went to a girls' school which had always had female leadership. While I was there in the 70s almost every member of staff was female. I didn't grasp it at the time, but decades later I can see that day in day out we had the example in front of us of women who'd worked hard at school and gone on to higher education and built careers. Many had taken time out to have children but had come back to teaching later.

Sadly, in the decades since, my old school has merged with its brother school and is now co-ed. I was absolutely incensed a few years ago when I got a newsletter with a column from a current sixthformer earnestly explaining that science and maths aren't just for boys! Of course they aren't. When I was in the sixth form, around half my year group of 80 were doing A levels in science and maths. About 10 went on to medical school, one to vet college, one to dentistry. At least two went off to do Engineering. My best friend became an astrophysicist. Lots of others went off to do Physics/Maths/Chemistry/Biochemistry/Biology.

I went down the Arts/Humanities route, but it wasn't because I felt it would have been a problem for a girl to do science or maths.

State single sex provision is usually based upon religious affiliation - and if they're oversubscribed, the applications are prioritised on the basis of regular church/mass attendance, references, etc.

As such, even if somebody were to be determined that their child got into a highly rated single sex church school, it would be unlikely on the balance of probabilities that they would gain enough points to stand a chance of being offered a place in year 7 and the size of the waiting lists for all other years would mean you'd have to essentially have 3-4 full classes empty of current students overnight to make it a possibility.

After all, nobody wants their child to go to a shit school, so they're hardly likely to apply to the undersubscribed and poor performing single sex place in any case.

I went to school in an area where almost all the secondary schools are single sex - that's state, religious and private. It is just the norm (and I have very mixed feelings about it but that's another thread). I see that my old girls' school has recently signed up for the Stonewall scheme. If a mixed sex school was a Stonewall school, I assume it would make toilets etc mixed sex. So I'm intrigued if the logical conclusion of this will be for them to admit transgirls.

To be honest I think they're hypocrites if they teach gender ideology in phse and then don't admit trans students of the opposite sex. It's like, when profits are concerned they know what sex is, but it's totally fine to groom your pupils into believing humans can change sex and boundaries are exclusionary.

@NeverDropYourMoonCup not here- loads of single sex schools, but I can think of only 3 (1 RC girls, 2 Muslim, 1 boys' 1 girls') that are faith schools.