Losing friends

[Alonelonelylonersbadidea]

Hello Sisters

I just need to vent. Sorry. I just went on FB (I know. My first mistake) and saw that an old friend has unfriended me. We've known each other for 20 years. We were a reasonably tight group of friends but I've lost a lot over the last couple of years due to my (and I quote), "raving transphobia'. I only just saw that she's one of them. It hurts.
It is shit. The thing is I know that many of our mutual friends feel the same way about safe spaces and so on, they just don't say anything. I really cared about her. Suddenly realised that we hadn't chatted in a while and thought I'd check on her FB before messaging. And all I saw was that she doesn't want to know me anymore. Our mutual friends are still there.

The thing is, my opinion doesn't change, but I do feel sometimes like humanity itself is gaslighting me! I'm sorry. I hope it was ok for me to vent. I don't honestly know who my friends are anymore. It's like Hungary during the purges.

Hugs OP its happened to me & it is hurtful. Sometimes friendships are not for ever but just for a certain part of your life xx

And vent as much as you want

So sorry OP. It's so difficult. We should be a society where these challenging issues can be discussed respectfully and the evident impact of competing 'rights' can be negotiated. But social media isn't allowing this.
I'm tempted to say that she's no true friend but I know that many good people have been gaslighted by the misinformation and demands to 'be kind' at all costs. The tide is starting to turn - very very slowly - and it's why it's all so intolerant at the moment. People are 'dug in' shouting abuse and we desperately need leaders who can model respectful debate.

Thank you for your support @Biscuitsanddoombar and @persistentwoman . They mean more than you know. I needed to feel less like a pariah and your words have really helped. Thank you.

Solidarity flowers

I've distanced myself from many friends because there are some aggressive wokescolds in some of groups. I'm no longer able to smile and nod for the sake of keeping the peace so I just avoid (which at least is easy during a pandemic)

I would so love to make new like minded connections IRL

It's very scary times as there are so many frankly unhinged people with aggressive intolerant views whose voices are being amplified by social media. They step into the public space and dominate the discussion and because they're frightening, using threats and intimidation, people are too scared to do anything other than nod and agree.
History tells us that this type of intolerance always collapses in the end but at the moment, it's tough.

Hi Lonely I'm sorry you are feeling so sad and isolated today. It is very hurtful and your friend may come to regret her action in time. I like @Biscuitsanddoombar s advice about some friendships not being forever. I'm in the same boat and have been isolated from a friendship group too with no explanation.. presume it is due to me raising my fears about women's rights, and the welfare of children in the face of all this when we were out for dinner before the pandemic. Sending hugs X

[Man here] I think that this is just one of a number of issues where there is a strong argument that if you believe one side it can be very hard to accept people with the opposite view. I think we will see many more friendships end over it, and other things too.

I think that my view is somewhat irrelevant, as a man. Men's rights are not under threat.

OP - FWIW I have unfriended people on social media for the simple reason I don't want to see their posts (covid scepticism) or play any part in amplifying them, whilst still having no problem with seeing them in real life. In the past I have emailed people with reasons and the hand of friendship at the same time as unfriending and blocking them on facebook. Maybe your friend can still be a real life friend, just they don't want to be an online one?

@Womansisterdaughtermother

Hi Lonely I'm sorry you are feeling so sad and isolated today. It is very hurtful and your friend may come to regret her action in time. I like *@Biscuitsanddoombar* s advice about some friendships not being forever. I'm in the same boat and have been isolated from a friendship group too with no explanation.. presume it is due to me raising my fears about women's rights, and the welfare of children in the face of all this when we were out for dinner before the pandemic. Sending hugs X

Womansisterdaughtermother - I can't help but think that there may be other reasons, not least the pandemic itself. I think that it is very immoral and wrong not to at least have the decency to tell you their issue and give you a chance to have your say. I don't send hugs, but if I did HUGS.

Solidarity. It sucks.

I think that’s a good point about social media vs real life - it may be that she has a relative or employer that has raised questions about things online and she has felt the need to lock things down.

It’s rough though. If people won’t engage with the topic we get scapegoated as the bad guy. It’s a horrible feeling

Sometimes it's lonely being right.

Especially when it seems everyone else is oohing and ahhing and pointing in admiration at the Emperor's clothes. Which aren't there.

Bless you OP. I'm lucky as have a group of like minded friends. Those who don't agree with me are entitled to their opinion, but I think they are deluded and wrong. But I would never unfriend them for having a different opinion to me. Crazy times.

@Campervan69

Bless you OP. I'm lucky as have a group of like minded friends. Those who don't agree with me are entitled to their opinion, but I think they are deluded and wrong. But I would never unfriend them for having a different opinion to me. Crazy times.

Are you sure? What if one of them said we should abandon democracy and award Johnson the title of Emperor for Life?

I joke, but from their point of view denying TWAW (full stop, end of) is as bad as denying that all colours of skin should be equal under the law. I disagree, but I can see why that point of view would absolutely reject me and OP. Equally I am tempted to suggest that I'd find it hard to be friends with someone actively pushing a TWAW (full stop, end of) position.

I have every sympathy with OP and could find myself in the same position sometime.

@JediGnot thank u! Maybe you are right... It is indeed a possibility . But I do recall how one of them seemed to take grave offence at the time but did not articulate it...
@MarieIVanArkleStinks you are v wise!
Hope OP feeling a little cheerier 🌺🌼🌸🌼

Get in there first. I went through my FB and deleted all spouting TWAW nonsense, it felt good actually.

Solidarity, op.

This is as bad as Brexit or Indyref for pitting people against each other as implacable opponents. No room for nuance, no compromise, no debate.

For myself, as my main worry is that we’ve lost the ability to tolerate disagreement, I try and nurture that flame in myself as much as I can. I have been unfriended on social media over this (even though I never mention it), but I won’t unfriend anyone over it. It’s not easy- I have some friends on mute so I don’t see the constant stream of virtue signalling, but they’re only acquaintances. Anyone who is a close friend in real life, I ignore their posts and carry on focusing on the real life friendship.

It’s sad, but if you wanted an illustration of who is actually tolerant in this debate, well there you have it. This friend can’t tolerate your perfectly reasonable opinion because in her mind, no decent person can believe what you believe - that’s on her. That’s authoritarian thinking, that’s the language of social control. Not wanting any part of that is perfectly rational.

I’m sorry, OP. It’s happened to most of us.

Once things are back to normal, try to get to a WPUK event or even a FiLiA conference & you’ll be surrounded by likeminded women.

You have my sympathies. But this is one of the reasons I generally keep Facebook very light on content.
I have friends that I know I have very different views to - Brexit was one, but curiously, we were able to agree to disagree and I simply won't resort to name calling, etc. I did hide a few friends after BLM comments for a few weeks which was good for my sanity. I had a tricky conversation recently with a younger friend and gently held my line, we didn't fall out, although I think she felt a bit tense towards me for a week or two. Reckon we're at the point of just not bringing it up, she is one of the nicest people I know but also hates confrontation. We've spoken several times since (ignoring the elephant) and are on friendly terms again!

OP, I’m the other side - unfriended a close friend on FB after they posted “Pride is a protest - fuck TERFs”.

I did message first to say that I thought encouraging violence against women was a really bad look for someone who was otherwise very “right-on”. Didn’t get a reply.

I’m looking forward to reading this book about how we can still get along with people we disagree with

www.amazon.co.uk/Fractured-societies-coming-apart-together/dp/0008463964?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Coming back to this thread this morning has really made me feel better. I spent much of last night going through some stages of grief - but with speed - if that makes sense. So I was sad, then angry and now I am resigned to it. There are so many people here to tag, but I just want to say to all of you thank you so much and how sorry I am that you have gone through the same.
The interesting thing is I have never been particularly outspoken. I don't find myself angry and hating people for them disagreeing with me. I don't want to live in an echo chamber.
I was thinking about some of the comments above, re her needing to not have inflammatory stuff online etc and that she does still want to be my friend. However the reason I thought of here was because I hadn't heard from her, so seeing that she has cut me off, must be my Terfiness. I had posted something about male-bodied people in women's sports a few months ago and I think this is what did it. I will not accept men in women's sports. I won't. I have heard nothing to change my mind on this.

I need a new tribe so to speak.
I am thinking that - in order to use platforms like FB properly and usefully for our purpose, we could all do something simultaneously like posting the Staniland Question, nothing more. and see what the response is. I do now want to see what my good friends think. I am wondering how many would cut me off if they knew that, no, i am not happy for a male-bodied person to use a communal changing room with me or my daughters.

@humanitariancrisis thanks for the excellent book link. I am ordering it.

I am now righteously indignant!
(one of my friend's posted a cross-stitch she had made saying 'Fuck JKR' - same friend group as my other ex-friend. now I thin of it I should check if she has unfriended me. )

I've just realised I have posted under a different username as I had forgotten my original password and mumsnet weren't sending me a link. This is OP!

one of my friend's posted a cross-stitch she had made saying 'Fuck JKR'

This is so silly isn't it? An adult woman sitting sewing such a ridiculous thing? Nastiness seems very popular.

Personally, I think you're better off knowing. If you look at what they are supporting, its not something you can condone with a clear conscience.
Its bad that people you thought were good friends don't have the courage of their convictions to say anything to your face, but I often say you cant really know yourself or someone else until you've been tested. We often assume good morals or intentions without any actual evidence for them.

This is so silly isn't it? An adult woman sitting sewing such a ridiculous thing? Nastiness seems very popular.

Agree, massive eye roll at that. Is she going to hang it on her wall?