Friend has shared petition against LGB alliance and called them a hate group

[MargeSimpson00]

I'm not particularly good at expressing myself so I need some help please. As title, friend had shared petition on fb against LGB alliance becoming a registered charity. I've replied simply with 'not a hate group, just a group to protect the rights of gay, lesbian and bisexuals since the trans movement took over previous organisations'.

Friend is a decent sort if a little naive, very socially anxious and spends a lot of time online. They do however have many woke friend so I'm expecting a pile on. I'd like a clear, non argumentative answer to the inevitable being branded as transphobic.

I wouldn't get into a debate tbh. I'd just repeat the position that you disagree and that it isn't a "hate" organisation. People who want to scold you on social media aren't going to listen to reasoned arguments. If they are abusive then I would report to Facebook, maybe take screenshot evidence as well and then leave it at that.

Have you seen this thread? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4224234-lgb-alliance-is-now-a-registered-charity

There's probably something in there. Off the top of my head, the key thing for me is that LGB is about sexuality and sex (biology, which can't be argued with). T is not a sexuality. So LGB are not transphobic, they just don't advocate for T rights.

Charities are allowed to advocate for rights of any groups as long as they don't impinge on the rights of others (check the Charity Commission for exact wording).

The fact that the CC has granted LGBA charitable status strongly indicates that they are not a hate group!

I'd simply ask why it's ok for there to be T-only organisations but not LGB-only.

Isn't calling LSB Alliance a hate group homophobic?

Your friend has fallen for the advertising.

LGB people have every right to advocate for themselves and state their boundaries as homosexual people without insistence that they conform to heteronormative sex and overcome their sexual orientations. See: 'lesbians should learn to cope with sex with male people'. Which is conversion therapy, among the many, many other things quite staggeringly wrong with that demand.

What part of 'homosexuality is unacceptable/homosexual people should have to have straight partners/female homosexual people should learn to cope with straight sex because providing sex is a duty and not something involving choice, pleasure, independent thoughts and feelings for a female human etc etc etc [jealous] ' is your woke friend supporting exactly?

The act of 'hate' really boils down to daring to set up an organisation stating boundaries around homosexuality being a sex based orientation and it being homophobic to refuse to accept this, and refusing to centre and organise around the T and all its politics. And a lot of hard work to smear and prevent an LGB organisation successfully existing independent of Stonewall et al's control.

Just block them, I'm not sure it's worth it. I'm in a similar situation, it's hard to know what to do 🤨

that was supposed to be as the nearest thing to looking nauseous I could find, not [jealous] . I really do as a lesbian find the appalling dehumanising attitude of 'provide your body for sex and the most you should seek for is that you've learned to 'cope' with it....' absolutely nauseating.

Women, you have a social duty. Sex isn't for you to choose or enjoy. Provide your body and shut up.

Fuck. That. Seriously.

The Charity Commission have to look at actual evidence (not rumour that your friend has been exposed to). The Charity Commission: “looked at whether LGB Alliance’s purpose invariably involves the denigration of the rights of transgender people and considered that it did not.”

You could say that the The Charity Commission looked very thoroughly at all the allegations about the LGBA and found no evidence to support any of them.

Link them to the Charity Commission’s decision document and tell them that for the petition to be successful they’ll have to prove which part of it is wrong. If you hadn’t already nailed your colours to the mast I’d suggest doing this “helpfully.”

Well I tried but they're too far gone unfortunately. Came back at me with a twitter thread from an 'inclusive cis feminist'

I'm stepping away.

So they're a feminist who doesn't value the rights of straight women or lesbians?

I think making your point, providing a link they can look at later if they choose, and then stepping back is the way to go. Your friend quite possibly expected 100% affirmation and they're highly unlikely to immediately reverse their view in front of all their friends, but you've given them something to think about.

A Facebook friend of mine has also shared that petition and I'm really disappointed - normally we've on the same page with politics etc. I can't face doing a reply on their page but if I was going to, someone on the other thread shared this link which I thought was really helpful - lgballiance.org.uk/myths/

[quote Waitwhat23]A Facebook friend of mine has also shared that petition and I'm really disappointed - normally we've on the same page with politics etc. I can't face doing a reply on their page but if I was going to, someone on the other thread shared this link which I thought was really helpful - lgballiance.org.uk/myths/[/quote]
That’s a really helpful link, thank you. Lots of good responses to a range of questions there.

@MargeSimpson00

Well I tried but they're too far gone unfortunately. Came back at me with a twitter thread from an 'inclusive cis feminist'

I'm stepping away.

inclusive cis feminist, eh?

I hope it's not the very prominent woman on twitter who describes herself that way, and yet tried to sue a transwoman for transphobia, and then got her case chucked out of court on the first day.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6764763/Britains-transgender-hate-crime-trial-halted-one-day.html

I can't remember who posted it on the LGB Alliance thread, but someone came up with the very good point that Stonewall sees LGB as referring to same gender attracted, whereas LGBA see LGB as referring to same sex attracted. If a group of people feel that the existing charity isn't meeting their needs it is entirely appropriate to set up another one that focuses on the areas they think are important. Choosing not to make another group of people the focus isn't hate, just prioritising.

Until 2003 Stonewall was LGB

People do tend to get swept up in the latest twitter outrage/scandal without doing any due diligence, if the information is coming from the 'right' people. I would probably have done the same 4 or 5 years ago. Try not to take it too personally. I changed my mind on the gender issue, other people could too.

A lady in one of my forums has done the same, she has a child who she is supporting in transition. I don't say friend as she has made some dubious judgment calls in the past. She's being applauded , even by two lesbian members of our group. I just don't get how they don't see it.

I need the forum for another specific issue, so I just ignore her so I don't get booted out. But is kills me to watch her child being medicated for puberty.

I hope it's not the very prominent woman on twitter who describes herself that way, and yet tried to sue a transwoman for transphobia, and then got her case chucked out of court on the first day*

Seems it's one and the same

[quote Waitwhat23]A Facebook friend of mine has also shared that petition and I'm really disappointed - normally we've on the same page with politics etc. I can't face doing a reply on their page but if I was going to, someone on the other thread shared this link which I thought was really helpful - lgballiance.org.uk/myths/[/quote]
This has excellent information, thank you.

@MsMarvellous

A lady in one of my forums has done the same, she has a child who she is supporting in transition. I don't say friend as she has made some dubious judgment calls in the past. She's being applauded , even by two lesbian members of our group. I just don't get how they don't see it.

I need the forum for another specific issue, so I just ignore her so I don't get booted out. But is kills me to watch her child being medicated for puberty.

This is so sad

It was a lot later than 2003 that Stonewall added the T. I believe it was 2015, under Ruth Hunt

@Floisme

I think making your point, providing a link they can look at later if they choose, and then stepping back is the way to go. Your friend quite possibly expected 100% affirmation and they're highly unlikely to immediately reverse their view in front of all their friends, but you've given them something to think about.

I agree with this. Point out that some of the founders of LGBA were also founders (?) of Stonewall but felt that SW we’re doing nothing for LGB anymore and had even had the audacity to claim a different definition of homosexuality (I might not have all the facts right there, please check first)