Altruistic Surrogacy in a family and Medical Negligence in Belgium

[OhHolyJesus]

Through medical negligence a woman had her cervix removed by mistake and so pursued surrogacy as a way to have a child.

Her sister in law, Susan, offered to have a baby for her, though I'm not clear if it was an offer freely given and it's not clear from the article if an egg donor was used or if the child is genetically related to the woman and her husband.

"“Susan opted for a planned C-section, which took place on 15th of October 2020. Susan went into hospital as a full able-bodied woman. She was given an epidural during labour. As a result, Susan is now paralyzed and is still in hospital since giving birth to our baby,” Mrs Ogbole-Spittael said."

(An epidural is standard for a C section, rather than a general anaesthetic isn't it?.)

I don't wish to misrepresent the article, there is a focus on the sister in law who gave birth to have been paralysed and unable to return to Nigeria to be with her children but there was also this:

"Despite getting a surrogate to bear a child for them, Mrs Ogbole-Spittael said she is yet to be recognised as the legal mother of the baby, even when her husband has been registered as the father.

She said if Mrs Ogbole leaves Belgium by October without the family completing the legal process, her ability to be the full legal mother of her child would be denied."

The sister in law has young children, aged 3 and 5. An all-round awful story, with the hospital behaving terribly with threatening letters and court action, and medical negligence can happen to anyone and paralysis following a C section/Epidural is rare and clearly there are some complex medical and legal issues at the heart of this - but I can't help thinking about...

The younger brother - he and his wife were trying to help his older sister have a family, instead his children are traumatised, his wife paralysed. How can their relationship survive this?

The surrogate-born baby girl will grow up knowing her birth and her parents desire to have a baby and 'use' the womb of her Aunt, will have caused physical and mental damage to her entire family

The children of Susan have a different mother now, not just because of her paralysis but the regret, guilt, pain and anger will have a huge impact on them as they grow up.

What a tragic story, an example of altruistic surrogacy within families not being so beautiful and happy.

www.premiumtimesng.com/regional/ssouth-west/455958-how-belgian-hospital-mistakenly-amputated-cervix-paralysed-two-nigerian-women.html

(extract)
"“I was told I couldn’t get pregnant naturally or artificially due to the amputation of my cervix and that our best option to become parents was via surrogacy.”

Accepting the offer of surrogacy, Mrs Ogbole-Spittael consulted with members of her family, with her sister-in-law, Susan Ogbole, accepting to carry a child for her."

It is very concerning that women are being advised that they should seek out women to provide a baby via surrogacy as a prescription for infertility caused by medical negligence.

I'm reminded of a UK case where a woman was financially compenstated specifically so she might travel to USA to fund a commercial surrogacy and obtain a child/ren.

Indeed R0 and the recent case of medical negligence has seen an Irish man compensated similarly so he can pursue surrogacy since the death of his wife.

I wonder how much of the suggestion comes from fertility clinics or the hospitals that treat the patient and are responsible for the negligence.

It's like the Dr themselves see women as vessels. I noticed that adoption wasn't mentioned.

I really, really, really want people to be force-fed this information. Whenever those of us who are opposed to all surrogacy say that we are thus opposed, people always say "but what about altruistic surrogacy, what about having a child for your sister" and I always say, I love my sisters but I am not laying down my life for them.

I am always shocked at the lack of critical thinking skills of many of the population of the world - no one ever goes beyond "oh, isn't that a lovely thing to do for someone" and into - what happens when it all goes wrong?????

BTW - I am opposed on feminist and right of the child grounds - to me, surrogacy is buying a woman and buying a child. Not to mention, the totally overlooked aspect of the mother who carries the baby, being genetically linked to that child (even if they use donor eggs, the baby is created by the birthing mother in her womb).

This article needs to be added to the surrogacy resource thread on FWR (not sure where it is)

Indeed R0 and the recent case of medical negligence has seen an Irish man compensated similarly so he can pursue surrogacy since the death of his wife.

I wasn't aware of that case.
I find it chilling that medical ethics have become so compromised that it can be considered reasonable.

@OhHolyJesus - I despair every day, at the headlong run into progressive law making that is happening here in Ireland - to the detriment of women and children - but as we keep saying, when we post about these things - it continues the long tradition of state use and abuse of women and mothers in Ireland.

And speaking of lack of critical thinking - how in the name of all that is holy, and the actual law of the land - did a judge in Ireland decide a man had a right to a child without actually having a willing wife/partner/mother to be in his life??????

Personally, I think it is all part of the agenda to remove motherhood from women - the final goal of the patriarchy, where they can create babies for men without those men ever having to involve themselves in a relationship with a woman.

And speaking of lack of critical thinking - how in the name of all that is holy, and the actual law of the land - did a judge in Ireland decide a man had a right to a child without actually having a willing wife/partner/mother to be in his life??????

Single men are commissioning surrogacy arrangements in order to obtain a baby. There was a recent interview where one such man explained he did so because 'he didnt have access to a uterus' (or similar.

It seems that some acceptance is growing for single, coupled or trios of men to be conidered 'infertile' due to them not being in a sexual relationship with a woman.

What a tragic case. Giving birth can be a life threatening process even without medical negligence chucked in. We really need to stop having such a flippant, celeb focused, hearts and flowers discourse about it in the media and start talking about the risks of it becoming a formalised service.

Yes, and this is my point - we are slowly become inured to this by repeated viewing on TV and SM - but the long term goal must surely be to separate out pregnancy and parenthood.

I mean, 20 yeas ago if you said, oh Peter and Paul are commissioning a woman to have a baby for them - people would think you and Peter and Paul were insane. But now this is considered a right for Peter and Paul - and Tom and Dick and Harry .

@R0wantrees

This was the story I mentioned, it follows the ruling from Lady Hale which awarded compensation for surrogacy to a woman who had already been awarded monies for the medical negligence she was subjected to.

Disturbing Surrogacy Front pager from Ireland this afternoon www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4183102-Disturbing-Surrogacy-Front-pager-from-Ireland-this-afternoon

@Annasgirl I agree completely - I think the problem with surrogacy in Ireland is it is neither illegal or legal, not banned or permitted, it is completely unregulated and I wonder if Ireland will follow in the footsteps of England, Wales and Scotland to propose legal reform when the surrogacy bill draft is released by the Law Commission.

Surrogacy is popularised by things like Tommy Tiernan who had two women on his show talking about their surrogacy 'journey'. I've only seen the brief online coverage where it was mentioned that the baby was with the birth mother for over 4 months but they didn't say why.

www.thesun.ie/tvandshowbiz/6868422/rte-floored-epic-kindness-surrogacy-tommy-tiernan-show/

And articles like this that lean on readers sympathy for the commissioning parents. The birth mother doesn't even get a mention, the baby boy was simply magicked here 'by surrogacy' - interestingly this mentions two women who were quarantined after travelling abroad for treatment/care for a relative but they struggled to get their released approved but this couple got it all swiftly dealt with because there is a baby involved, and that baby was born in Ukraine.

www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/relief-for-surrogacy-couple-as-they-will-be-allowed-to-quarantine-at-home-on-return-from-ukraine-with-newborn-baby-boy-40321735.html

@RabbitOfCaerbannog

What a tragic case. Giving birth can be a life threatening process even without medical negligence chucked in. We really need to stop having such a flippant, celeb focused, hearts and flowers discourse about it in the media and start talking about the risks of it becoming a formalised service.

This and wrt to egg donation as well.

Hearts and flowers is exactly it, Rabbit. But death and disability are an ever-present risk of pregnancy and childbirth. In the context of surrogacy narratives, the very real and ever-present worst case scenarios of pregnancy and birth are waved away.

Tragic story.

(An epidural is standard for a C section, rather than a general anaesthetic isn't it?.)

Yes, unless there are pretty good reasons for a GA they're generally avoided.

the long term goal must surely be to separate out pregnancy and parenthood

Yep. SmokedDuck on another thread yesterday was talking about constructivism (I had no idea what that meant!), and how feminism has sometimes played right into this issue, unfortunately. Separating the mechanics of life as if they can be parcelled up and packaged off and women's reproductive roles commodified.

Does anyone else find it strange that a woman who has her cervix removed by accident returned to the same hospital with her sister in law who was carrying and about to give birth to the child they were due to take responsibility for as parents?

How could you trust that hospital when something so serious has been misjudged? I realise it was close enough to walk to but is there something negligent about the couple themselves? Perhaps it's just misguided trust, one department fucking up badly doesn't mean they are all incompetent, but even if you don't care much for your sister in law, wouldn't you think twice about returning for the birth of your child?

They also decided to proceed with the same hospital despite not having had the first situation concluded and without compensation being paid. With all that legal stress I wonder what could make you go back, cost of going elsewhere perhaps.

I feel for Susan as she must have left Nigeria some time before she was due to give birth as you can't fly in your 9th month and her poor kids have been away from her and at a time there is a global pandemic, so even if she has been able to walk out of the hospital Susan might not have been able to travel home to her kids, much in the same as the Irish couple have to quarantine, but Susan will need all kinds of care and adjustments in her daily life, her home, her family, if she can't walk and has to use a wheelchair.

This has ruined her life.

'Answering a question on why the family chose the hospital the second time, Mrs Ogbole-Spittael said it was the closest to them and other professionals referred them to the hospital.

“We were not expecting another mistake, also, the medical doctor that attended to me first was very remorseful of the outcome and called me personally to apologise. We didn’t think another mistake could occur.'

(extract)
"Despite getting a surrogate to bear a child for them, Mrs Ogbole-Spittael said she is yet to be recognised as the legal mother of the baby, even when her husband has been registered as the father.

She said if Mrs Ogbole leaves Belgium by October without the family completing the legal process, her ability to be the full legal mother of her child would be denied."

I don't understand the inclusion of this point. Its stated that the mother has had to stay in Belgium longer than planned and that her children in Nigeria are distressed by the period of separation.

Whatever the legal issues are with registering a change in parental responsibility for the new born baby these would have been the predictable.

I don't understand the inclusion of this point. Its stated that the mother has had to stay in Belgium longer than planned and that her children in Nigeria are distressed by the period of separation.
Whatever the legal issues are with registering a change in parental responsibility for the new born baby these would have been the predictable
It might that her physical condition has prevented the process from progressing smoothly and in the timeframe they could have otherwise expected. Presumably she has spent quite some time in hospital, maybe the legal process (and professionals) couldn’t/wouldn’t proceed under those circumstances - COVID restrictions, for instance, on the process taking place whilst she was in hospital. Potentially could have had enough of an impact that there’s now not enough time before she has to legally leave the country.

I only say that as my DF has been in and out of hospital and his care home since being discharged from hospital last March. I haven’t seen him in over a year now. We’ve been trying to organise an LPA and Will to be set up for him. It’s been very difficult as, though he has full mental capacity, he has no physical capacity to do things like use a phone or iPad, sign cheques or documents, himself. It’s only now that one of us can visit him and help him with the process the solicitor can arrange everything and kick the process off. It will still take about three months because of the legalities. I imagine the process of registering a Mother of a surrogate child is far more involved and lengthy.

@OhHolyJesus

Does anyone else find it strange that a woman who has her cervix removed by accident returned to the same hospital with her sister in law who was carrying and about to give birth to the child they were due to take responsibility for as parents?

How could you trust that hospital when something so serious has been misjudged? I realise it was close enough to walk to but is there something negligent about the couple themselves? Perhaps it's just misguided trust, one department fucking up badly doesn't mean they are all incompetent, but even if you don't care much for your sister in law, wouldn't you think twice about returning for the birth of your child?

They also decided to proceed with the same hospital despite not having had the first situation concluded and without compensation being paid. With all that legal stress I wonder what could make you go back, cost of going elsewhere perhaps.

I feel for Susan as she must have left Nigeria some time before she was due to give birth as you can't fly in your 9th month and her poor kids have been away from her and at a time there is a global pandemic, so even if she has been able to walk out of the hospital Susan might not have been able to travel home to her kids, much in the same as the Irish couple have to quarantine, but Susan will need all kinds of care and adjustments in her daily life, her home, her family, if she can't walk and has to use a wheelchair.

This has ruined her life.

A child had the wrong kidney removed under the NHS, they had to go back to the same hospital for further treatment. It happens.

Gosh what an all round terrible story.
It does sound as though the fibroid operation was technically challenging and there may be some reasonable excuse for the loss of the cervix. Multiple fibroids would obscure normal anatomy especially if they were large.

No one should end up paralysed after an epidural obviously although it does happen. There was a case in the UK a few years ago.
We are (relatively) lucky in the UK that the NHS has an indemnity insurance scheme so compensation for these types of errors should be less difficult to obtain than this poor family seem to be experiencing.

The potential for serious harm is just one of the reasons I oppose all surrogacy.

Personally, I think it is all part of the agenda to remove motherhood from women - the final goal of the patriarchy, where they can create babies for men without those men ever having to involve themselves in a relationship with a woman.

I absolutely agree Annasgirl

The fight is hotting up too, with gay/single men demanding "fertility equality" and a right to have a baby ignoring the rights of women who are expected to provide the babies.

I see it mainly being about children as commodities or products for the well off, men or women. It's not only men commissioning these kids, and it's not only their genetic mothers the children are being separated from. Meanwhile in the wider culture childbearing and rearing is seen more and more as a lifestyle choice.

What a dreadful story. Paralysis is always a risk with an epidural. If they inject into the wrong part of the spinal cord, that's it. Having the epidural was the very worse part of my (medically necessary) c-section. As ever, taking that risk to bear your own children is one thing; taking it to have a baby for someone else is another.

I would imagine there is only one hospital in Bruges so there weren't many options. (Just checked - that is the only one).

I wonder if Belgium has the same issues around maternal negligence for black women in childbirth as there are in the U.K.? I wouldn't be surprised.

@SmokedDuck

I see it mainly being about children as commodities or products for the well off, men or women. It's not only men commissioning these kids, and it's not only their genetic mothers the children are being separated from. Meanwhile in the wider culture childbearing and rearing is seen more and more as a lifestyle choice.

Yes, but I think it's worse than that, it's the perfect baby as a commodity. We've seen numerous stories of these situations going wrong when the children turn out to have disabilities or other issues. In this case - this woman's other children are not as important to the "purchasers" as the baby and having ownership of it to complete the perfect family. They are presumably wealthier - there is almost always an advantaged/disadvantaged power dynamic.

Thanks for sharing OhHolyJesus. This is indeed such a horrific outcome. The risks involved in any pregnancy is so high, it is incomprehensible to think that it gets hand waved away the way it does.

That this instance also has the added complexity of crossing international borders and being parted from existing children really brings home the risks. It really has become the commoditisation of both children and women's bodies.

Such a distressing story - and yes to this being the commodification of women's bodies and babies.