An insight into the mindset of a teen trans activist

[SapphosRock]

This is both fascinating and frightening. I wonder how many adults could listen to this and feel 100 % comfortable with this young person's decisions.

This young person seems to miss the key point that NHS clinical staff cannot operate in the way they expect.

There is an inherent contradiction here, complaining that the reason is "privatisation" at the same time as demanding a socially funded privatised model of no questions asked. Socialised healthcare and free choice healthcare are not compatible.

This young person seems to miss that children in UK are protected by Safeguarding frameworks which Gender GP operates outside of.

Yes and they are missing that there are suddenly thousands of adolescents demanding the same thing - the NHS is means to be able to immediately find the extra money to give them what they want, and give them what they want without any safeguarding?

My pre-teen DD is not happy about the changes of puberty. She doesn’t like change, she feels self-conscious, she’s said she doesn’t want to get boobs and periods. I remember feeling the same, it’s a hard time. But I’ve grown up to accept and in fact love being a woman. It really scares me that this person is being encouraged to think that how they felt at 10 was an expression if their “identity” or true self. How easy it would be for my DD to go down that path because she’s surrounded by people saying you can just decide you’re a boy instead and feeling dysphoric about your changing body means you’re trans and need to be medicated for life.

It’s especially alarming when they say it’s not fair that they can’t have the irreversible male puberty their “cis” male peers get to have. But it isn’t a male puberty if you don’t have the male body to develop. It’s just damaging your female body with a few irreversible secondary effects - it can’t make you functionally male. Yet they are speaking as if the hormones do everything and make them just like a male of the same age. That in itself suggests they are not informed enough to consent.

Oh and apparently they can’t have periods in a men’s toilet as that would be “dangerous”. so... any man should be allowed in the women’s toilet on his say-so - yes?

Yes and they are missing that there are suddenly thousands of adolescents demanding the same thing - the NHS is means to be able to immediately find the extra money to give them what they want, and give them what they want without any safeguarding?

It isn't actually the money, it is recruiting skilled people willing to do it. You cannot staff a service when people don't apply for the jobs.

That's interesting Scepticaltank - hadn't considered that job roles that involve giving teenagers life altering hormones and surgery wouldn't be popular but it makes sense.

I wonder how many people who blindly support trans rights and body autonomy in under 18s actually realise what they're supporting.

I am sure that a significant proportion of the pool of potential applicants (given we are speaking of people with prior healthcare qualifications, not enthusiastic randomers off twitter) are thinking ahead about the potential to be embroiled in future court cases.

@WindyPudding

Yes and they are missing that there are suddenly thousands of adolescents demanding the same thing - the NHS is means to be able to immediately find the extra money to give them what they want, and give them what they want without any safeguarding?

My pre-teen DD is not happy about the changes of puberty. She doesn’t like change, she feels self-conscious, she’s said she doesn’t want to get boobs and periods. I remember feeling the same, it’s a hard time. But I’ve grown up to accept and in fact love being a woman. It really scares me that this person is being encouraged to think that how they felt at 10 was an expression if their “identity” or true self. How easy it would be for my DD to go down that path because she’s surrounded by people saying you can just decide you’re a boy instead and feeling dysphoric about your changing body means you’re trans and need to be medicated for life.

It’s especially alarming when they say it’s not fair that they can’t have the irreversible male puberty their “cis” male peers get to have. But it isn’t a male puberty if you don’t have the male body to develop. It’s just damaging your female body with a few irreversible secondary effects - it can’t make you functionally male. Yet they are speaking as if the hormones do everything and make them just like a male of the same age. That in itself suggests they are not informed enough to consent.

Oh and apparently they can’t have periods in a men’s toilet as that would be “dangerous”. so... any man should be allowed in the women’s toilet on his say-so - yes?

The key part is "grown up" don't our minds finish developing in our early 20s?

I hated my body during puberty but does anyone actually enjoy puberty?

In regards to clinics well you need clinicians who specialise in that field, who are interested and have undergone additional training which requires funding and resources. Most post graduate health degrees are 2 or 3 years long and have 1 intake per year so even if there was a degree which specialised in sex reassignment and all the issues that go with that then you wouldn't realistically see any health care professionals with that qualification for a few years yet.

We've had a public with increasing mental health issues for decades yet the mental health services are so far behind demand its ridiculous. The nhs pot doesn't stretch as far as it should, many areas are underfunded.

sceptical yes I hadn’t even considered that. Now you mention it a friend of a friend is a doctor who used to specialise in gender issues and has moved into a different area. It must be really difficult to operate as a cautious, informed professional while under massive pressure to affirm, and seeing more and more younger patients.

Although cost is likely to be an issue too, since all of the nhs was struggling even before the pandemic.

This clinic keeps explaining how difficult it is to get people to join.

An FOI was published widely recently where the explain this:

The Laurels has also experienced particular challenges in recruiting to clinical posts, especially medical staffing which has further impacted on the service’s ability to increase capacity to attempt to meet demand.

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/712701/response/1707560/attach/2/Freedom%20of%20Information%20Response%2020%2021%20194.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

All of the reports deliberately ignore this reason and go for the emotional "failing" lines.

www.vice.com/en/article/g5b7jy/gender-identity-clinic-nhs-waiting-time

Vice explain The Good Law Project is suing the NHS because people don't want to work in identity services.

It has apparently been the same for a while now.

www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/calls-stop-taking-new-patients-858926

@Scepticaltank

Yes and they are missing that there are suddenly thousands of adolescents demanding the same thing - the NHS is means to be able to immediately find the extra money to give them what they want, and give them what they want without any safeguarding?

It isn't actually the money, it is recruiting skilled people willing to do it. You cannot staff a service when people don't apply for the jobs.

This is a really important point. I have been listening to the Stella OMalley podcast this weekend and they made the point that a lot of therapists have left gender clinics as they are now very limited as to they type of therapy they are able to offer.

There are a lot of issues surrounding treatment for young gender questioning children that should be very concerning. It seems like there is a bit of a knee jerk at the moment where the adults follow the childs lead which in turn is causing these problems. Hopefully things will calm down so that more sensible, sensitive support can be offered.

I've no doubt that transition will ultimately be a positive option for some but it should be one of many options explored.

If this is the case then it suggests that those medical practitioners remaining will be gender identity zealots and those newly joining will be similar. This might be the time that a patient actually getting through to treatment will be especially dangerous. Also, expect GenderGP to do absolutely roaring business.

Thats a good point Nauticant

young gender questioning children

It's so awful that this is even a thing.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with questioning gender and it's what everyone should do, and probably does do to some extent. That is what being gender critical is too. Questioning gender stereotypes should not be medicalised.

What is being questioned is actually sex - because children are being told it's possible to "really" be the opposite sex to what their body is. Not gender. And that's why things like blockers and hormones and surgery come into it - they are all about sex characteristics, not gender. The whole thing is so grotesquely confused and appalling.

Pathologising a completely normal life stage. And I've never seen so many threads elsewhere on MN from parents of younger and younger children fretting about their sex and sexuality. Its really chilling

@HermitsLife

Pathologising a completely normal life stage. And I've never seen so many threads elsewhere on MN from parents of younger and younger children fretting about their sex and sexuality. Its really chilling

Big difference between children and teens exploring their sexuality and rejecting their sex.

I'm sure some people regret experimenting with their sexuality but what's the worst that can happen? They feel a bit embarrassed. They are not left infertile or with limited sexual function.

The idea that a 13 year old is supposed comprehend what it means to sacrifice their adult selves blows my mind 🤯

I think they do often go hand in hand for kids though, precisely because "gender identity" and sexuality are lumped together in LGBT/Q, and the rest, and the fashion among very young kids atm is to have yourself an identity or be square. So among my DD's friends there is a "trans" FTM 10yo, approved by school, one announces herself as gay at every opportunity, one is "non-binary" and they're all enamoured of any kind of LBTQ flag or t-shirt as a fashion thing. They are pre-having any kind of sexual encounter, as they should be, but choosing some kind of identity is the done thing. It is all about being cool by being LBTG.

Of course I do understand that some gay people knew they were gay from an early age, but that's not the same as choosing a rainbow identity in year 6 because it's cool.

I actually think choosing a rainbow identity in year 6 is very sweet as long as there is no talk of blockers, binders or hormones for the trans kids and actual sex for the L, G and B kids.

They should be choosing their rainbow pencil cases from Smiggle in Y6 not “a rainbow identity”, whatever that is

What worries me is whether the children who think they are lesbian or gay (I say think because for every kid who knew back in year 6 whether they were straight, gay or lesbian, many weren't sure, and it is quite normal not to be sure until much later on than year 6. Whatever your sexuality), feel guilty for not being pansexual.

There seems to be a lot of confusion over whether it's sexist or prejudiced to turn one sex down, for all the world as if personal relationships were governed by equality legislation.

@Hoppinggreen

They should be choosing their rainbow pencil cases from Smiggle in Y6 not “a rainbow identity”, whatever that is

Just means thinking they're going to grow up to be gay, lesbian or bi, instead of all assuming that they're going to be heterosexual (because those are the only relationships they've seen). Which is what used to happen, unless you were a kid who realised early.

There's no harm in that.