The tip of an iceberg..?

[RabbitOfCaerbannog]

Portland's OHSU Hospital Covers Up Sex-Change Abuses
Nine transgender patients accuse Dr. Daniel Dugi of disfiguring and "experimenting" on them. One patient accuses Dr. Dugi of coercing him into sex-reassignment surgery.

"Alex said he felt like he “was very much pushed into transition” because of ongoing “mental health problems” that his therapist failed to properly diagnose."

These poor people: bescofield.substack.com/p/portlands-ohsu-hospital-covers-up

That was absolutely horrific reading.

Surgery in this area doesn't seem to be governed by the same governing standards as other specialities at all.

How much of what's described is a bug and how much is a feature?

Oh god.

Horrific reading.

I said on another thread the other day. I've had a lot of surgery when I was young. Secondary school age. Fairly major surgery with loss of feeling/ function a risk. Lots of physio time out of school recovery pain etc.

The way these surgeries seem to be viewed is really disturbing.

The groin area is a centre of nerves, major arteries. It's the warmest bit on you because of the large blood supply.

Surgery in that area is major. The surgeries being talked about here are massive. Invasive. I can't even imagine. The pain must be immense.

My scarring was deep and it took years not to hurt inside. Years and years. And I have permanent nerve damage. I have no feeling at all in fairly large areas. And this was not on my genitals.

This is massive massive risky surgery.

The people in the article. And this is where we should be working together not put in opposition.

Women have been experimented on, butchered, ignored etc when it comes to medicine. Forever. We understand. Feminists understand.

What I would love to see is one of the major LGBT+ charities giving legal support so they can sue. That would be really good. It's the only language they understand.

I don't know if that's happening? Because it really fucking should do.

If not why the fuck not.

@NiceGerbil I’ve enjoyed many of your posts, but I had no idea you’d been through so much. I’m so sorry to read this. Thank you for your contribution. I just shows how bloody seriously we need to be taking this issue.

Bloody awful reading. Heartbreaking for the young people

That is heartbreaking. Historically, experimenting on vulnerable patients has happened so often.

Trans people - indeed, all people - deserve so much better than this. What an absolute scandal. There should be a full and proper mental health assessment before such major and irreversible surgery is performed and people clearly need to be better informed of the huge risks they're taking. This is just awful, medical malpractice for money.

Bump

That was awful to read. I was struck though that it was often the aesthetic as well as function that the patients weren’t happy with. One patient complained that their neovagina looked nothing like a c*sgender woman’s. I think 2 others complained of internal hair growth. It made me wonder whether not only are there concerns about the suregein’s ability to do the surgery but surely on how he is counselling his patients about what to expect afterwards. No neovagina is going to look like a natal woman’s vacina because it isn’t one and internal hair growth has been reported frequently in other reports I’ve read because of the nature of the surgery.
I would also love one of the big LGBT+ charities to support them to sue if that’s what they want but I doubt that will happen because there’s too much invested in the narrative that every trans experience is wonderful, the treatments are always positive and anyone who has problems was never really trans in the first place. It doesn’t fit their agenda to be supporting people in the community where things have gone wrong. Which, to me, begs the question: what is their reason for being if not to support members of the community through hardship?

Are people being rushed, lied to about results or just hoping so much for better outcomes that they ignore anything that tells them otherwise?

The euphemisms for the surgery is a bit of a tell though isn’t it?

One patient complained that their neovagina looked nothing like a csgender woman’s*

Sadly, I've seen many transgender people considering the surgery told (on forums) that there's no difference. One person even said that a gynaecologist couldn't tell that their surgically constructed vagina wasn't a natural one, that they'd had sexual relationships with lesbians who didn't notice, etc.

I'd hope that they do a lot of research before having such a serious surgery, but when you have people telling you they've had it done and it's so fantastic that it can fool a gynaecologist...I think it's incredibly cruel to raise someone's hopes like that, especially someone who is likely very distressed already :(

@nauticant

How much of what's described is a bug and how much is a feature?

Yes I agree. One of the patient accounts said their vagina didn't look a woman's vagina. Well no of course it doesn't; it isn't a vagina.

Cross posted

People seem to listen more to random people online (‘no difference’, I suspect there certainly is) or look at very stylised and photoshopped photos of celebs, and believe that they will be transformed into a glam film starlet type.

They want so much, but the truth isn’t all that they aspire to.

Or - and I have seen this - look at memes online that are just faked ‘I’m in the ladies loo and noone ever knows...’ with a stock photo of a female model.

The euphemisms for the surgery is a bit of a tell though isn’t it?

In reading the article I was thinking that it wasn't easy to follow and I'm now in my fourth year of reading about this issue. For a "civilian" much of what's in the article would be incomprehensible. I think the deliberate obscurity has an impact on informed consent and also runs against to the public interest (the interest of the public in being properly informed).

I was also struck by the complaint that there therapist didn't diagnose their mental health issues properly. What qualifications do therapists have? They are not doctors but are they even psychologists or more like counsellors?

What I would love to see is one of the major LGBT+ charities giving legal support so they can sue. That would be really good.

Especially given the context...

"At the end of the letter, the patients state that most poor/low-income Medicaid patients in Oregon are “funneled” to OHSU hospital. Thus, those disfigured and injured by the program were more likely to be more oppressed. “Too many people have come out of the program harmed without the financial or social means to do anything about it,” they write."

One person even said that a gynaecologist couldn't tell that their surgically constructed vagina wasn't a natural one

There are times when being a people pleaser or being kind but untruthful is actively harmful to others, no matter what somebody's intentions are.

@toffeebutterpopcorn

People seem to listen more to random people online (‘no difference’, I suspect there certainly is) or look at very stylised and photoshopped photos of celebs, and believe that they will be transformed into a glam film starlet type.

They want so much, but the truth isn’t all that they aspire to.

Years and years ago there was an article in a mainstream magazine - it certainly would not be published now - about a semi-famous late middle aged male person who transitioned, then detransitioned, then retransitioned, then detransitioned and finally committed suicide. The reason the person gave for their despair was that transition did not make them a young hot woman, and that was all they wanted.

"ALEX MARKEL NEVER WANTED sex-reassignment surgery. Dr. Daniel Dugi of Portland’s Oregon Health & Science University (OHSU) hospital talked him into it, he claims. Alex (alias name) told me he had only wanted an orchiectomy (removal of the testicles) but Dr. Dugi refused and instead pressured him into getting sex-reassignment surgery. Being only 22 years old and feeling vulnerable he went along with it."

How on earth has it become normalised for boys and young men to consider having their testicles removed unless such radical surgery was intended to inhibit the spread of testicular cancer?

R0wantrees - am I misremembering or is there a thread that someone posted 2-3 years ago which had some rather lovely art about our vulvae(?), vaginae, and uteri (so to speak)? And a discussion about how beautiful and vascularised the various tissues are and their astonishing functions?

It came to mind because so many people seem to think that some tissues are dark and cold whereas they're beautifully vascularised and warm and cleverly self-lubricating and self-cleansing.

Which is:
a reminiscence;
a thought that if surgeons represent that they can construct something akin to the the vagina (I've no idea if they attempt a vulva) then they need to take time out from their world-beating research and publish it.

How on earth has it become normalised for boys and young men to consider having their testicles removed unless such radical surgery was intended to inhibit the spread of testicular cancer?

There's a whole eunuch subculture - mostly gay men, a lot of the time it stems from them having had some trauma to their testicles and them now wanting rid - but in a sexual way. Like this guy:

www.miaminewtimes.com/news/my-life-as-a-eunuch-6355515

It is however completely illegal to remove the healthy testicles from a man, if that man knows he's a man. Hence why 'Alex' had to transition.

Makes you wonder how on earth we reached a point where it was progressive and wonderful to stunt and remove the genitals of gender nonconforming children - when it is still illegal to remove them from adults who know full well what they want but just don't subscribe to the same ideology.

Yes that's similar to women who want a hysterectomy because they suffer terrible endo, don't want babies, know they're likely to inherit certain cancers, the response from the medical profession is "no no no".
But you say "I think I might be trans" suddenly it's a rush to whip all your female organs out as soon as possible.

The double standards are astonishing.
Emotional blackmail has worked wonders for the trans train.

I just want to agree that I have enjoyed reading NiceGerbil's concise and thoughtful posts, but I also want to add how chilling I find all of this. I had a couple of thoughts.

I visit LSA often and was quite shocked to read there is little to no regulation when it comes to sex reassignment surgery in the US and that many people who have problems following surgery struggle to get repair surgery. Often they have signed a waiver with the original surgeon and other surgeons are wary of trying to fix such damaged work. Its a scandal and its all abut money.

The second was, I remember reading an interview with Dustin Hoffman after he made the film Tootsie about how shocked and disappointed he was to discover when he was all done up as a women he didn't look like a sexy young thing but a nondescript feminised version of himself. For him it was a bit of an epiphany about his attitude towards women and it made me wonder how do middle aged transitioning people feel when the reality does not match the fantasy?