He. These are not our crimes.

[Ravenclawsome]

Though I wonder if the Facebook person is a secret terf as it makes it clearer this is a male despite the female pronouns.

www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/dundee/2125153/breaking-dundee-teenager-denan-anderson-walks-free-from-court-after-baby-rape-video-conviction/

"It's fucking ridiculous, people tie themselves up in knots to avoid using the words 'girl/woman' for fear of offense..... Except when talking about a male wanting to rape babies, then the word 'girl' is perfectly appropriate?"

You've confused 2 different things there. No one takes offence when using the words "girl" and "woman" unless you are talking to or about a group of people that includes, or may include trans men and non-binary people, in which case, it can be helpful to use more inclusive language.

You've confused 2 different things there. No one takes offence when using the words "girl" and "woman" unless you are talking to or about a group of people that includes, or may include trans men and non-binary people, in which case, it can be helpful to use more inclusive language.

Girl and woman are inclusive terms for all human beings who are female, whether children or adults and irrespective of their gender identity (or lack thereof).

[quote LiveLuvLaugh]@GNCQ I think the "pregnant people, uterus haver" brigade advocate these as collective terms not to be used when talking to or about individuals. [/quote]
Right.
So the rules are, in PSHE, health (etc) you're supposed to refer to groups of people as "people with a penis" or "people with a vagina" rather than man/woman/girl/boy.

Then when an individual gets referred to as a "person with a penis" or even the reducted version- "person" suddenly this is all terrible and against the rules.

Of course. All very clear

(By the way my comment is in no way aimed at you directly LiveLoveLaugh I just picked it up because I'm sure we're both trying to work out "the rules").

I'd like to know what type of a crime a person living under a different identity would need to commit before this whole shambles starts to be taken seriously. Would they need to be in the John Worboys / Jimmy Saville / Steve Wright territory before people in authority realise what everyone else with an ounce of sense can see with their own two eyes?

I wonder if it would be ok to refer to certain people as “penis people” or “penis person” if we want to avoid the word woman in these contexts?

I feel quite relaxed about the pronouns as long as it is clear that it refers to a person with a penis. It seems to be ok for the NHS to avoid sex/gender and just refer to sexual organs so maybe this would be the solution everyone on this thread could be happy with?

HermitsLife , how about “teenaged person with a penis who downloaded”?

In the spirit of menstruators and ovary owners etc?

"Penis person who specifically used their penis to commit the most heinous act possible" That seems like a fair compromise.

FPFW are doing some work in this area:

fairplayforwomen.com/ipso/

I just hope they get results. And soon.

This is why language matters when we are talking about crime and convicted offenders:

www.keep-prisons-single-sex.org.uk/use-of-language

here’s another admittedly clearly vulnerable but born a man, found guilty of breaching a SPHO having been found guilty of viewing images of child abuse and spared jail 🤷🏼‍♀️

No one takes offence when using the words "girl" and "woman" unless you are talking to or about a group of people that includes, or may include trans men and non-binary people, in which case, it can be helpful to use more inclusive language.

They do if those words are applied to a predatory male. It's not just denying reality, it's insulting to all the women who've been victims of male predators in the past.

You've confused 2 different things there. No one takes offence when using the words "girl" and "woman" unless you are talking to or about a group of people that includes, or may include trans men and non-binary people, in which case, it can be helpful to use more inclusive language.

Well do you know what, I fucking take offence when people use the word 'girl' or 'woman' for a male, yes A MALE, A MAN, who downloads images of babies being raped and I think it would be 'helpful' to use factually correct language. But no one gives a shit about that do they? No one is falling over themselves not to offend me? Why not?

This is just such fucking horseshit, I can't even believe my eyes sometimes.

@Mugginyouleftrightandcentre

You've confused 2 different things there. No one takes offence when using the words "girl" and "woman" unless you are talking to or about a group of people that includes, or may include trans men and non-binary people, in which case, it can be helpful to use more inclusive language.

Well do you know what, I fucking take offence when people use the word 'girl' or 'woman' for a male, yes A MALE, A MAN, who downloads images of babies being raped and I think it would be 'helpful' to use factually correct language. But no one gives a shit about that do they? No one is falling over themselves not to offend me? Why not?

This is just such fucking horseshit, I can't even believe my eyes sometimes.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻