Julie Bindel on women who self-ID as Gender Critical

[yeahbutnaw]

Does this match your experience?

What do you think?

What's with the post and demand?

Do you not have thoughts of your own?

It's courteous to share them, if so, rather than demand that everyone jump to answer your questions.

It's a discussion board after all.

You spend a lot of time on these threads telling people they're feminising wrong. How about you tell us your own approach to sports, medicine, refuges, prisons, fgm and self ID. Then we can say if it's reasonable or not.

The floor is yours.

No

This was in response to a woman calling out a man who said "More regard for her pronouns than the life she had extinguished".

Do you think it's bigotry to take objection to such language?

Is it my experience that trans activists will take screenshots out of context and present them on an another platform in order to misrepresent the situation and create mischieve? Yes.

Do I think you will do the same with screenshots from here? Also yes.

I think it’s interesting you chose to take this out of context. It was part of a long exchange between multiple people on Twitter.

Why did you chose to do that?

Let’s hear your views. I refuse to share my thoughts with someone who demands a response with no context nor any indication of their opinion.

It's interesting that you interpret a question as a demand.

Replies are voluntary on this thread, as on any other. Nobody's compelling you to respond. You're choosing to.

It's a closed question for a start. If you want to invite discussion you need to input yourself.

Int he spirit of a worthwhile discussion, rather than looking at Julie Bindel's tweet out of context, here's the context:

twitter.com/bindelj/status/1379844635535814656

At the heart of the discussion is people identifying Benjamin Boyce as GC or as an GC ally. It's clear from his channel that that is not how he sees himself at all. The tweet by Kathleen Stock above Julie Bindel's in informative in how people can have a nuanced position.

No, it doesn’t match my experience at all.

All the people that I’ve met have their reasons for getting involved in the debate, but I’ve never met anyone and though “nah, you’re just in it to shit on people you don’t like”.

What was the context of the quote? I’m not on Twitter.

We are still waiting to hear your view!

JB is being very precise about the use of the word "bigots" there - noting that some "GC" people were acting out the same sort of bigotry we see from the TRA crowd - intolerance of people with different viewpoints.

And I agree - GC people should not be acting like TRAs and attacking wrongthink.

She's not talking about "bigots" in the way TRAs use the word - projected accusations of bad motivation/hatred instead of arguing the point.

@NecessaryScene1

JB is being very precise about the use of the word "bigots" there - noting that some "GC" people were acting out the same sort of bigotry we see from the TRA crowd - intolerance of people with different viewpoints.

And I agree - GC people should not be acting like TRAs and attacking wrongthink.

She's not talking about "bigots" in the way TRAs use the word - projected accusations of bad motivation/hatred instead of arguing the point.

Interesting. So in this situation, you believe Julie is referring to women who questioned Benjamin's anti-abortion stance as bigots?

Just to get it into the thread - the tweet is in reply to this from Kathleen Stock, which makes the meaning totally clear. OP has chosen to conceal this tweet in an attempt to misrepresent what Julie is saying.

As I'm tagged - if Benjamin thinks differently to me on some matters, including issues like abortion, that's fine with me - I didn't assume he wouldn't. Demanding people sign up to a complete set of principles, or else fail utterly, is partly why we are all in the mess we are in.

Thanks nauticant. I understand the context now.

Benjamin Boyce posted a video in which someone who identifies as a non binary femme had an abortion and was upset by being misgendered during this process. BB then posted “more regard for her pronouns than the life she had extinguished”. Some Twitter back and forth ensued, as it does, over whether BB is anti choice. I’m still not clear on that, as he’s quite opaque and seems to think he’s simply airing a provocactive view rather than actually saying he holds it. My impression tends to be that he does seem to think abortion is wrong.

I think a little less of him if that’s the case, I have to say. I’ve listened to a lot of his content and have always had the impression that he’s a reflective, thoughtful, woman supporting man, so I’m not sure how this fits.

What hasn’t changed is that I have always been aware that he’s not a gender critical feminist, so my worldview remains the same: that there are many groups of people who weigh into this topic from many angles, and I don’t agree with them all by any stretch of the imagination. This is not news.

I don’t know who JB is referring to. Is it BB?

So in this situation, you believe Julie is referring to women who questioned Benjamin's anti-abortion stance as bigots?

Are you saying you don't? Feel free to expound an alternative reading.

@NecessaryScene1

So in this situation, you believe Julie is referring to women who questioned Benjamin's anti-abortion stance as bigots?

Are you saying you don't? Feel free to expound an alternative reading.

I'm unsure. Hence why I'm asking for your interpretation.

It does seem unusual for a feminist to refer to women as bigots for being pro-choice though.

In my experience, I've definitely seen a good few out-of-context screenshots that are then used to try get gotchas out of women mumsnet. That's fairly common imo.

Any reason you didn't link to the actual tweet, OP so there was no context to comment?

It does seem unusual for a feminist to refer to women as bigots for being pro-choice though.

She's calling women bigots for saying that someone (possibly wrongly) perceived as being anti-abortion should be shunned.

Do you understand what "bigot" means? "One who is narrow-mindedly devoted to one's own ideas and groups, and intolerant of (people of) differing ideas, races, genders, religions, politics, etc."

It's got nothing to do with being pro-choice or anti-abortion.

GCs should very much be the non-bigotted side here - it should be what distinguishes us from TRAs - the willingness to live and let live, rather than compel people to follow our belief.

Any reason you didn't link to the actual tweet, OP so there was no context to comment?

Because the OP thought it was a good opportunity to passively-aggressively call everyone on here a bigot.

I usually link to tweets, so they can be seen in context, as well as supplying a screenshot.

Any particular reason you didn't do that, OP?

@NecessaryScene1

It does seem unusual for a feminist to refer to women as bigots for being pro-choice though.

She's calling women bigots for saying that someone (possibly wrongly) perceived as being anti-abortion should be shunned.

Do you understand what "bigot" means? "One who is narrow-mindedly devoted to one's own ideas and groups, and intolerant of (people of) differing ideas, races, genders, religions, politics, etc."

It's got nothing to do with being pro-choice or anti-abortion.

GCs should very much be the non-bigotted side here - it should be what distinguishes us from TRAs - the willingness to live and let live, rather than compel people to follow our belief.

I'd encourage you to read about the paradox of tolerance.

You've demonstrated a fairly shallow understanding of what bigotry is.

And "live and let live" is not how I'd summarise GC viewpoints.

Yeah but Gone fishing somewhere. The bait here is cr**p!

If you're posting in good faith yeahbutnaw, you really need to get away from those on the Right Side of History needing to support those on their side and to oppose those on the Wrong Side of History. Going through life using this approach will not serve you well.