Irreversible Damage and censorship in breastfeeding groups

[ixqik]

Seeing that many breastfeeding counsellors and peer supporters along with doulas and midwives are also trans activists, it is inevitable that they will censor any information that challenges the ideology.

This blogpost from Full Cream which places Irreversible Damage in the context of breastfeeding was therefore chopped by moderators who only posts 'approved' posts to their Facebook group.

Nice way to exercise totalitarianism, remove consent. nice way to infantilise women and mothers by determining what is 'good' for them.
Nice work on the way to social engineering.

I think the pictures are what causes a problem.

It's all theory but seeing the pictures.. is a different matter.

Of course breasts aren't just sexy looking bumps. But, that's how men think of them in certain cultures.

Tits out for the lads, fine.
Feeding a baby, revolting, inappropriate, do it in private.

It's fucked up.

The gross sexualisation of breasts in our society, fetishisation. Means that when girls start developing the male gaze starts, irrespective of age.

It's been that way for ages. See breasts- ogle. Comment. Stare. Etc.

It's not a surprise to me that having them removed is fairly popular. Nor lots of women who remember how it was to be a girl.

It's no surprise to me that girls want to bind.

In the end it's the images that are the real problem. Because they strip away the words around it.

It is difficult to know here. I run a facebook group and I am not sure how I would tackle this (we pre approve posts too). Transideology is not the purpose of the group but a discussion of it could be hugely distabilising to the group. I am not sure I would approve such a post. I am hoping transideology never comes up to be honest. I would hope a breast feeding support group would basically avoid the topic from either side.

Midwives I know are very aware of sex, funnily enough.

There is considerable division within the community; I know a lot of bf supporters and lact consultants who are very GC. But have to be quiet due to pile ons.

I also think more discussion and fierceness tends to happen in sling groups. Doulas obviously advertise and engage in those groups as mothers are more likely to get a doula second time round.

This article is very good and I really don't think many have made the full link.

From observation, (especially for some reason in sling groups) the parents are younger and it's around their young boys identifying as girls.

As the parents get older they leave the groups so few are there talking about their teen girls removing breasts.

Also, many slingers didn't bf. Women tend to remain in sling groups longer than bf groups as it's often a good place to sell stuff, find out local info for days out etc.

Mastectomy seemed to be less common previously and more transmen seemed to have breasts to feed with; I think the wave of girls who've had mastectomies is yet to hit the stage of child rearing in a way that will impact.

I do not understand Doulas who are so aggressive about all this. It goes against everything that a doula always stood for.

It's also why so many were so cross with the lactation consultant who wrote an otherwise great book about breasts, only to include a description of a girl choosing to remove them.

That's a great and heart breaking blog post, OP, thanks for sharing. I don't think I'd put it in a peer support group as said above, the aim of these groups is supporting mothers - new mothers primarily, and that's too political. Groups are kept light and straightforward to focus on helping mother/baby dyad.

That blog post is excellent - I am reading this book at the moment and find it really informative. It should be a "must read" for all who come into contact with young women who claim they were "born in the wrong body".

The photos on the blog have made me feel really sickened and upset. I can't believe there are medical professionals who carry out this butchery. "Top surgery" is the biggest euphemism out there.

That is a really good blog post. I'm in a lovely BF FB group and to be honest I'd be worried if something like that turned up, though. It would be bound to create an issue that would overshadow and taint all their good work, no matter which side of the argument you came at it.

I wanted to join another group recently that was more specific to my situation but it clearly put 'chest feeding' on a par as an equal descriptor so I didn't bother.

A relative of mine is a doula and has gone full on mad. She talks about pregnant women and people which seems to me to suggest women are not people.

She is highly skilled, works for AIMS and is doing so much harm to what should be a service centred on women. It is about biology, not identity.

Thanks for the comments. I wasn’t the one who tried to share it in a breastfeeding group and I don’t know which group.

For clarification based on a comment above. There are different types of breastfeeding groups. There are groups that are not for parents such as one for trained breastfeeding workers who monitor WHO Code breaches, or for those supporting those who are training in breastfeeding support or are already trained.

Point taken that it may not be for all breastfeeding groups and thank you for pointing that out. It does also mean that it depends on the accompanying post with which it was shared.

OP which groups was it censored from - were they mainly fir mums or for professionals to talk among themselves?

@Manderleyagain, I didn’t ask. I can try to ask but don’t know if there will be an answer. Fwiw, I am in many bf groups. I’ve been a bf advocate for over a decade. I know that it happens in the supporter to supporter groups from previous experience. I also know that dissenting voices from the trans advocacy party lines are frequently witch hunted, piled on, cancelled, removed from groups because no discussion is tolerated that goes against the ideology.

I have seen women with 30 years experience or more have vexatious complaints raised against them in an effort to push them out of their training organisations, never mind Facebook groups.

For organisations and women whose work is supposed to be on caring for women, it is hubris.

Shocking, OP. I think the situation means we need to be extra careful about how we share and discuss things. Sometimes it's like leaving a trail of breadcrumbs for others to follow. The tide is changing though. All the time wonen are asking more questions. And we know what happens when they do that.

Excellent blog. Clear and articulate.

The obliteration of the biological capacity of a breast – both in terms of sexually pleasurable sensation and lactation – should be considered devastating. And we know that among women who have no choice but to accept this outcome as a result of life saving intervention against breast cancer, the loss of not just their breasts but the loss of the future use of their breasts is devastating. But the breasts being removed for gender ‘affirmation’ are completely healthy, and the loss of function is not a side effect but the entire point.

Chilling.

@ArabellaScott

Shocking, OP. I think the situation means we need to be extra careful about how we share and discuss things. Sometimes it's like leaving a trail of breadcrumbs for others to follow. The tide is changing though. All the time wonen are asking more questions. And we know what happens when they do that.

This is such a good point. The pile on and reputational carnage that can happens to a woman's career for stating female centred biological facts is intolerable. Being restricted to quiet conversations results in the anti women / insufferable 'woke' brigade holding much of the floor. BUT, it's all so extreme that most women (and men) aren't buying it. The more this leaches into pregnancy, child birth, child rearing and education, the more people see the harm that is being done and stop supporting the nonsense.

I wish more of these women would read things like the op link post and this: hormonehangover.substack.com/p/top-surgery-regret-part-1

It's not even so much career damage I was thinking of, persistent. More that to stay in groups and on platforms and not to be silenced, deleted and kicked out of groups means we have to be very careful to remain calm, clear and level headed and stick to the rules. Even when - maybe especially when - confronted with manipulation, misinformation, abuse, threats and intimidation. This very behaviour itself can prove instructive for observers.

They go low, we go high, type of thing.

Thanks OP. I worked in bf support in the past. I wasn't on any facebook groups or anything though, and it didn't come up much in real life.

I wonder if people are finding each other. The full cream blog is good (is it by an American?). There is also a twitter account @wearewithwoman UK based I think. Their bio: "collective account for pregnancy, birth, breastfeeding concerns of women. Sex-based language is important due to sex-based oppression".