DID becoming more popular

[MondayYogurt]

Possibly not the right place to post this but I just wondered if anyone else has noticed that DID www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/dissociative-disorders/ self-diagnosis is becoming more popular among teens (girls)?

It seems to be going the same way as other so-called social contagions - spread via popularity on tiktok, reddit, tumblr, twitter etc.

Delving further it seems as if the existence of numerous 'alters' allows the systems to identify into a myriad of disorders and disabilities.

This has the side effect of allowing the person/system to claim victimhood and oppression - ableism being a primary one, homophobia, transphobia and so on. If one alter is gay then the system can claim oppression for being gay, without ever having to actually live the experience outside of their own mind.

I have yet to see any systems discussing alters outside their own race, which is telling in itself.

I have a friend with diagnosed DID as a result of significant trauma. Her condition makes her life very difficult.

These people glom onto anything that will give them 'victim points'. It's despicable.

Wow this is fascinating and mindboggling. I looked at that text with that flag and it’s “emdophobic pride” - so that’s a pride flag specifically for hating some other group of “systems” that you don’t think are as valid “systems” as your own type of “system”. That’s such a distortion of the original pride concept it’s inside out.

I wanted to know what endo meant in this context so had a wee rabbit hole tour. It means being a system in some kind of innate way rather than due to trauma, but also I found that your many identities can include fictional characters, fantasy creatures, animals and inanimate objects.

A bit like the trans “100 genders” and plethora of “neo” pronouns, it’s like it’s some kind of game or focus in itself, to construct as much indentity-based detail and categorisation as possible.

Just as you can have online groups to chat about hobbies, feminism, science topics or cars or whatever, these groups are like special interest groups where the only subject is infinite contemplation, labelling and specifying of the self.

I really relate to the autism issue discussed below too. I’ve always been socially awkward and struggled with smalltalk, and have extreme reactions to certain senses especially sound and touch. When I saw a psychologist for a trauma related issue, after a while she said she thought I have ASD/aspergers or whatever it is correctly known as now, a mild form. She said I could go and get a diagnosis but I haven’t - because I really hesitate to get involved with the whole juggernaut.

If it’s mild and I have found ways to function, then I don’t think a diagnosis can help me much and I wouldn’t want to tell people because it feels cringey when people go on about it. I know someone who pursued an autism diagnosis like a trophy to go with their other labels and identities (latest is of course non-binary) and goes on about it all the time - I can’t bear the thought of that. I don’t want people looking at me and talking about it, or to be part of a “club” of some kind.

The parallels are fascinating aren't they WindyPudding? Especially when you consider how social media, gaming, and other online activities are significant enabling factors.

However, we have the remarkable irony of the present age that, with institutions largely captured and the need to unquestioningly accept all identities (no matter how extraordinary), it's a risky endeavour for anyone in academic to carry out a rational investigation. So we end up in a situation where the children are wrecking the house while the adults can only look on.

depersonalisation & derealisation is pretty common (10% of people, doesn't have to be related to trauma) and is underdiagnosed. So there could be genuine cases who have not been formally diagnosed.

but self-identification on reddit is not going to help anyone. It does sound like just another 'tribe' that you can join and then make demands that everyone else treat you nicely because you are special.

Instead, people who experience depersonalisation / derealisation and are distressed by it (some are not distressed) need genuine psychological care & therapy. Not a reddit chat.

But also IME you can have a sense of depersonalisation or dissociation as a symptom of depression, anxiety or even just stress. It might not be long-lasting and is a symptom rather than an innate feature of yourself or your identity. But anyone who has experienced that could now be encouraged to decide they’re a “system” - much like anyone who steps outside some non-existent concept of a pure gender stereotype can be “trans”.

@WindyPudding

I really relate to the autism issue discussed below too. I’ve always been socially awkward and struggled with smalltalk, and have extreme reactions to certain senses especially sound and touch. When I saw a psychologist for a trauma related issue, after a while she said she thought I have ASD/aspergers or whatever it is correctly known as now, a mild form. She said I could go and get a diagnosis but I haven’t - because I really hesitate to get involved with the whole juggernaut.

If it’s mild and I have found ways to function, then I don’t think a diagnosis can help me much and I wouldn’t want to tell people because it feels cringey when people go on about it. I know someone who pursued an autism diagnosis like a trophy to go with their other labels and identities (latest is of course non-binary) and goes on about it all the time - I can’t bear the thought of that. I don’t want people looking at me and talking about it, or to be part of a “club” of some kind.

I was in a friendship group a couple of years ago and really would have benefited from telling them. But there was a much younger woman (22) in the group who "identified as" being autistic and I felt I couldn't say anything because she required such attention/special consideration that I didn't want the others to think i would be the same. She wasn't autistic.

She identified as having several conditions and was regularly in hospital having tests for one thing or another. She wasn't diagnosed with anything but her mum told me she had been doing it for years. She also turned up to hospital frequently having taken a Paracetamol overdose. I barely knew her and she texted me to tell me, which is why I spoke with her mum. Her mum said she'd done it many times. She would take 3 or 4 Paracetamol and then present at A&E having taken an overdose and stay overnight while she had treatment. She had fetishised hospitals and illness though (she was under a private psychiatrist for this).

An ex girlfriend of my son's self identified as having lactose intolerance (but would eat pizza, ice cream and milkshake); coeliac disease (but would also eat bread and pasta etc) and Ehlers Danlos syndrome.

It seems to be quite a 'thing' amongst young 20somethings.

One of my DC disassociates but doesn't have full on DID. Early childhood trauma. Scores highly on ACE
It is heartbreaking. There is so little help. Also ASD
All the 'identifying as' makes a mockery of those who really have these conditions

summerhouse yes exactly - I don't want people thinking I'm one of the attention-seeking people, or that I see it as my "identity". Like tibtom said below about Temple Grandin (I love her!), I am so much more identified by other things - my job especially, being a mum and various interests. I've successfully built a self-employed, home-based life that works well for a socially awkward introvert, and if I do have ASD I don't think it affects me enough to be a "victim". And everyone is different and has different experiences and even difficulties, but if you claim "neurodivergency" it's like you're drawing a hard boundary.

One of the first (US) transwomen I chatted to on social media is now a 'system'. I check in on them every so often and they seem ok.

There was a thread a while ago about the claim that using 'they/them' pronouns if you're not a 'system'/ plural is appropriation....! - so it has been discussed on here before to some extent.

Would be interested to see how much filters through over this side of the pond.

MyBeautifulSummerhouse

Omg I’m getting flashbacks to my mother who very similarly used to love presenting at hospital with her ‘paracetamol’ overdoses. She would claim she was x,y or z if it got her attention. She even expressed her extreme dismay that I as her DD had not been born with any kind of special needs so she could be a mother who needed ‘extra support’.

She was an alcoholic but I knew there was an underlying MH issue and I don’t know what it was, but anyway when the specialness of her latest physical illness, depression, eating disorder wore off on the friends and families who had, had enough of dealing with her she ramped things up to whole knew levels of crazy. Setting fire to her flat, taking stronger overdoses, getting herself in vulnerable situations to become a victim. She was well known to the police and the hospital but no one took her seriously.

In the end she died of an accidental overdose, so I do fear that these people who have to identify as something they are not in order to feel some kind of inner peace are actually on a hiding to nothing. Once the specialness wears off they will have to be something even more special, and that’s not good for them or others. It’s actually not doing people any favours pandering to this. It’s also deeply upsetting to people with genuine disorders.

And it made me delve a bit further - it seems as if it could be the next iteration (now that being trans is mainstream ie not that interesting anymore)?

I've been following this a bit and I agree, this (self-identifying with DID) seems to be the next iteration. There's a lot of... let's say fan fiction... about 'systems'.

Too much time on the internet basically.

There needs to be some sort of charity set up to get teenagers out into the real world if they're otherwise stuck in their bedroom.

@Tibtom the ASDers online can be insufferable, it’s put me off seeking support as I’ll get told off for using the wrong word (which changes depending on the person). My DD is diagnosed, DH pretty much diagnosed (via eminent professor) and I certainly have traits, one of which is saying the wrong thing!

I hate seeing others put off seeking support because of the, almost militancy, when it comes to language. People jumped on for using Aspergers. It’s long reminded me of the gender stuff. Its worth studying the links to find out why there’s a correlation, certainly my DD loves labels and I did similar in my head as a teen, a way to make the world make sense when we feel we don’t belong. But equally there’s a lot of ASD GCers, perhaps the logic side overriding the “be kind”.

All these labels have a common theme of being the most oppressed victim/special person, attention seeking and perhaps an excuse for not being successful in some way/being a shitty person.

I notice autism is also becoming much more about self identifying (not even self diagnosing) as autistic.

I noticed that a long time ago, maybe 15 years ago. People were diagnosing themselves or others as autistic. Sometimes to explain social awkwardness, sometimes as an insult. I remember a poster on the Guardian diagonising Tony Blair as autistic because of his 'flashing eyes'.

Someone at work was causing huge problems for other people with his awful behaviour. He explained it away as his being autistic (although without any diagnosis), then went on to say that 'everyone is a little bit autistic'. Since then I've met others who think autism is a personality trait. We have another staff member now who has told people he has autism, but without an official diagnosis. Again he's someone who's had interpersonal clashes with others, to the point of getting formal warnings.

The people who think they are really cats / wolves etc are called "Otherkin". I'd advise not googling, it gets very weirrd.

I think the "systems" thing comes from a type of therapy called Internal Family Systems, which is quite popular with rationalists:
www.lesswrong.com/posts/5gfqG3Xcopscta3st/building-up-to-an-internal-family-systems-model

But as I read it, it's not meant to be taken literally and adopted as a lifestyle, more used as a way of understanding some of our emotional responses and behaviours.

It's popular with software engineer type people because one way of understanding it is (in engineering language) that the mind is a series of subroutines that get called on in different circumstances - a bit like a computer operating system.

But there's clearly a vast gulf between "ask your angry self how they felt about this situation" and "today I am identifying as my 5-year old self and needed to be treated accordingly" (and of course the safeguarding implications of actually doing that).

About excusing poor behaviour or failings - I have seen that too. The identity-seeking person I know is full of blame and hate for all the oppressive and prejudiced norms and institutions that have held them back, but the reality is that they are a self-obsessed pain in the arse who never stops shouting at people, and their focus on identity makes it hard for them to really focus on getting anything else done.

Also interestingly, having known this person since childhood I’ve seen them change and become less competent as they appeared to cultivate and adopt asd type traits and other victim-status conditions.

The other thing is that people want to be relieved from the burden of being “privileged”. If they have special victim status they can claim to be oppressed and can magically stop feeling guilty about being white or middle class etc. Except of course they actually still do have those privileges.

Another aspect of people self-identifying as something within a community is that they become really aggressively anti-recovery and vocally against people with actual diagnoses trying to find ways to cope.

I've seen it with MH spaces where anything other than 100% support of someone to continue damaging behaviour is described as "ablist". My cousin left a FB group for women with ASD for similar reasons - there were a few of them sharing techniques they used to help at work and in social settings and they were told they weren't allowed to perpetuate neurotypical expectations when for them it had been really helpful.

Someone at work was causing huge problems for other people with his awful behaviour. He explained it away as his being autistic (although without any diagnosis), then went on to say that 'everyone is a little bit autistic'. Since then I've met others who think autism is a personality trait. We have another staff member now who has told people he has autism, but without an official diagnosis. Again he's someone who's had interpersonal clashes with others, to the point of getting formal warnings.

One of my pet hates - people who use autism (or any other condition) to excuse their appalling behaviour.

I have a diagnosis for ASD; a late diagnosis. I've always known I was 'different' but I'm way older than the generation of 'entitled fuckers' and as women often do, I just got on with life.

Part of my autistic behaviours is that I'm very black and white, so self ID would never work for me, for anything. I either am, or I'm not, with no shades of grey. I find all self ID and self diagnosis a difficult concept to grasp.

I can't help wonder where will it all end? Eventually there will be no need for a diagnosis of anything as people will just don the cap that suits their purpose at that given time and in the meantime, demonstrate appalling behaviour and blame their (self identifying) condition.

Only DH really knows but about 18 years ago out of nowhere I had a panic attack and once it finished I had a prolonged period (months) of depersonalisation/derealisation, as well as severe migraines. It was awful. Then it happened again 10 years ago but with the migraines being less severe.

I never went to the GP, mainly as, especially the first time, I was terrified that I was going mad and I'd be locked up somewhere. I had no knowledge of what was going on. It's only a few years ago I came across a piece written by someone who had the same thing (panic attack followed by these symptoms) that I could give it a name. Never had any trauma in my life, no idea why it happened.

So I can believe that there may be people like me who never got formally diagnosed but recognise their experiences in someone who did. But it's not something I ever want to go through again (and now I recognise it have some calming techniques for when I might feel panicky).

To jump on this as means to self identify, excuse behaviours and to classify yourself as a victim is bloody offensive. I thought I was losing my grip on reality FFS, that's not something I'd want people to know IRL (DH and you lovely vipers aside )

As shown by people describing their experiences on this thread, the most common forms of dissociation are depersonalisation and derealisation. They are very common in DV and sexual violence survivors and as such are a feminist issue, not something to write off as attention seeking.

There are models of the mind that view the mind as plural and models that don’t.

Most people who view themselves as having multiple personalities, sub personalities, alters or parts do not have and are not claiming to have a dissociative identity disorder or mental illness symptoms.

In a dissociative identity disorder the different identities dissociate from each other; it is the dissociation that make it a mental illness.

That Twitter hashtag is a bunch of people claiming to have alters. They are not all saying they dissociate or are mentally ill.

What I am trying to say is that some of this conversation is conflating different issues:

Dissociation through depersonalisation and derealisation = mental illness without dissociated multiple personalities.

Dissociative identity disorder = mental illness with dissociated multiple personalities.

Multiple personalities, parts, sub personalities = not a mental illness.

I tried to post about this a few years ago and got deleted. Perhaps I failed to properly articulate that what I was seeing was not DID itself but a wider phenomenon. Or perhaps I still am too clumsy in my language on the subject and will get deleted again.

My impression is that systems/multiples is to DID as trans or maybe nonbinary identity is to gender dysphoria. It started off as a last resort way of dealing with a difficult condition and has been coopted by a type of identity politics.

Personality systems are an academic theory that applies to everyone though.

They aren’t like non binary where the claim is that only some people have them.