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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Social contagion amongst teenage girls

21 replies

CaveMum · 03/04/2021 08:01

It’s definitely a thing isn’t it. I’ve just read this article on the BBC about a “suicide group” of teenage girls in southern England on Instagram.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56617838

There are so many parallels with things like the “pro-ana” groups that were prevalent a few years ago, and I’m sure we could find a large number of parallels to “other” areas that have seen a sudden and large rise in teenage girls thinking a certain way.

I’m wondering why it seems to affect girls more than boys though, is it simply a “wanting to fit in” (or in some cases wanting to “stand out” from the norm) thought process or is there something deeper going on?

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DaisiesandButtercups · 03/04/2021 08:22

I think that there is a thing, evolutionarily, that women needed to be able to work together and form a very cohesive group in order to support one another through child bearing and child rearing, grief and the consequences of the more negative interactions with men. During the teenage years when the adolescent brain is restructuring girls are finding a way to connect and bond with one another. In past times those girls would likely have been your closest friends and most significant source of emotional and practical support during the years to come. Those of us who are mothers know that motherhood makes you dependent on others in a way that you haven’t been since you were a young child. So I think that that deep desire in adolescent girls to connect with one another in a very deep, significant and meaningful way is now sometimes seen more negativity in harmful social contagions.

I would imagine that in healthy societies girls would be heavily supported in the healthy development of those close bonds so essential for the survival of the group, tribe or community by older women and in fact the whole group.

drspouse · 03/04/2021 08:25

Teenagers as a separate group aren't a thing in pre modern societies though are they? You are a child and then you are an adult, in the adult world with adult responsibilities. So the adults would be influencing you (as well as, you know, marrying you off aged 13).

DaisiesandButtercups · 03/04/2021 08:42

According to the book Nisa! by Majorie Shostak the adolescent boys were known as “shade experts” as they spent so much time hanging out in groups under trees.

The girls also spent a lot of time together doing bead work among other things. They weren’t expected to marry until their late teens and they had “trial marriages” first probably similar to our teenage relationships.

So I believe that adolescence was a distinct life stage in some gather-hunter societies. Once humans turned to agriculture and later industrialisation it was likely lost as all hands were needed from a very young age to do the necessary work.

In Nisa’s tribe the children played all day in their own child size play village which they had made for themselves next to the actual village. The adolescents hung around and sometimes joined in with adult activities.

CaveMum · 03/04/2021 08:59

That’s interesting @DaisiesandButtercups thanks for your comments.

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SirSamuelVimes · 03/04/2021 09:08

That's fascinating, buttercups, thanks for that.

I wonder whether in our society it's part of forming a protective grouping? We all know how sexually threatened you can feel as a teenage girl - from adult men and from teenage boys. Is it a form of defence, the close female bonding? But then that closeness allows for a greater level of contagion?

I also wonder whether it has anything to do with a loss of other activities. Boys tend to retain involvement with sports and hobbies for longer into their teen years. Are they more likely to have jobs too? I think if you have more facets to your life you must be less vulnerable to social contagion as you are experiencing different points of view.

Scout2016 · 03/04/2021 09:16

Boys and girls respond differently to stresses and anxieties too. Girls are more likely to take it out on themselves with self harm or eating disorders, boys are more likely to act out and get into "delinquency".
Coupled with that is the attempt to become more independent from parents and family while needing a substitute for them, and the fact teenagers are far more likely to take risks. Developmentally, they aren't very good at processing several things at once, they need to work through one issue at a time, sequentially rather than concurrently and are more likely to get stuck on an issue.

DaisiesandButtercups · 03/04/2021 10:36

That’s an interesting insight too, Scout2016. I think that I can relate to what you are saying when I think of myself during adolescence.

From the anthropology point of view apart from Marjorie Shostak’s books about Nisa, I found these books very interesting

Blood Relations - Menstruation and the origins of culture by Chris Knight

Male and female by Margaret Mead

highame · 03/04/2021 10:38

Some stuff very sweeping because girls can be very 'excluding' and bullying that needs some care to understand. There's something called 'slut shaming' which apparently can include young girls who have been subject to sexual harassment, rape culture etc. No care, or be kind in that stuff

Working class women used to be together, living in closer groups (due to housing) and they formed hierarchies and the glamorous and independent women were excluded, even though the glamorous ones were, from a feminist viewpoint top of the hierarchy.

It is a part of us, as women, that we need to take a careful look because I have too many questions. We are very reluctant to look at hierarchies because they cause too many issues in the equalities debate but why do they still exist. Confusing stuff this

DaisiesandButtercups · 03/04/2021 10:56

Perhaps the glamorous women were more likely excluded because of a perception that they couldn’t be relied upon in time of need if they had different priorities?

Some more toxic elements of any instinctive behaviour will emerge when the environment is more toxic. Evolutionarily successful behaviour can become twisted by being in a hostile environment or an unhealthy environment. Our healthy desire for the sweetness of our mother’s milk and nutritious but seasonal fruits is dangerous in a world of processed sugar.

This bonding of girls though can become a problem both in the contagion for self harm and in the tendency to shame those who don’t fit the group norms. Which is why a healthy form of adolescent bonding and connection would be supported by a society with more healthy social structures generally in my opinion. I had thought that we were on the way there but I fear the invention of the smart phone has stalled progress.

highame · 03/04/2021 11:12

Or.....their husbands fancied the glam ones and might run off Grin

These women were always more capable and therefore not being relied on in times of crisis wouldn't hold water

Bbq1 · 03/04/2021 12:35

The cause is part the prevalent toxicity of social media, part the absence of strong supportive relationships within the family unit and imo, a huge immaturity in these girls. In the historical civilisations that people have mentioned adolescents became adults earlier than today. My own mum left school at 15 ( the school leaving age then), went to work in thr city and travelled to and from work independently. Imagine a 15 year old doing that now? Some 15 years old are mature of course but others probably like these girls in the group are quite childlike and consumed with taking selfies, hoping to get on Love Island and planning future surgical "enhancements'. Sad.

sleepyhead · 03/04/2021 12:47

That's true, Bbq but in past generations of women there was still often (always?) close policing of in-group and out-group behaviours. In my grandmother's working class, urban area that took the form of:

  • keeping a clean front step. In fact a huge range of tedious, repetitive, time consuming cleaning activities Hmm
  • not getting above yourself
  • gossip (you didn't want to get yourself and your business talked about and gossiping about the minor transgressions of others was a bonding activity)

Women helped each other out and were in and out of each other's houses all day, but there were definitely outcasts and you could be cast out if you didn't fit the mould in some way.

drspouse · 03/04/2021 12:56

There were some very silly and young teenage workers when the school leaving age was younger, too. All those tales of sending the apprentice to the stores for a long weight or striped paint. They were all living at home with Mum and having their washing and cooking done and still having a curfew "while you're under my roof".

NotBadConsidering · 03/04/2021 13:03

Regardless of if it exists, what it is, or what causes it, the fact that no one seems remotely interested in researching the huge increase in girls presenting to gender clinics is scandalous. If certain people are so sure it isn’t social contagion then they should demonstrate exactly what it actually is, with decent research, because it sure as hell isn’t a just a blip.

CaveMum · 03/04/2021 13:10

Not sure if we can pin social contagion solely on social media. There are well documented historical cases, and it still happens particularly in parts of south-east Asia, where groups, particularly girls, appear overcome by some kind of mass hysteria.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-48850490

From the article:

Outbreaks have been recorded around the world, with cases dating back as early as the Middle Ages. Incidents in Malaysia were particularly prevalent among factory workers during the 1960s. Today it largely affects children in schools and dormitories.

And

”There's no denying that mass hysteria is an overwhelmingly female phenomenon," says Mr Bartholomew. "It's the one constant in the [academic] literature."

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CaveMum · 03/04/2021 13:11

@NotBadConsidering

Regardless of if it exists, what it is, or what causes it, the fact that no one seems remotely interested in researching the huge increase in girls presenting to gender clinics is scandalous. If certain people are so sure it isn’t social contagion then they should demonstrate exactly what it actually is, with decent research, because it sure as hell isn’t a just a blip.
Exactly my thinking.
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DaisiesandButtercups · 03/04/2021 13:14

But “stealing” a husband in industrialised pre welfare state Britain would have had devastating consequences for the woman and children losing the main earner of the family. Destitution and the workhouse would be their only option. So is it any surprise that women who put energy into acquiring as much male attention as possible would be feared (and despised) in such conditions? Perhaps there is an element of playing down the role of the men as always due to the belief in men being inconstant naturally and easily led astray.

In the biography of Nisa, it appears that due to women being able to sustain themselves and their children with support from female friends and relatives the relationships between men and women were more relaxed. Dissolution of relationships was not so frowned upon or destabilising for the community as it would have been in pre welfare state Britain.

In more recent history I propose the miners strikes of the 1980’s as an example of how women relied upon and supported one another despite being very capable individually. In normal times a crisis can happen to a family or individuals and close female friends step into the breach to offer support.

Given that working class women in post industrial revolution Britain had to work outside the home there must have been a need to support one another in child rearing.

Close female bonds are in my opinion the glue which holds any human group, family, village, tribe together.

If this is so important then it will be innate and the misfiring and misdirection of this instinct leads to girls harming themselves in order to belong to one another and create lasting bonds.

In fact a friend from West Africa once suggested to me that she believed it a component in the continuation of FGM, that all the girls in a village go through this horrific experience, usually together in an age cohort binds them in suffering so that they are more deeply bonded. And I believe Hibo Wardere said something similar, the girls who had been cut taunted and shamed her until she asked to be cut too, not knowing what it meant, afterwards the other girls welcomed her as one of their own.

There is a fictional book, I think it was - Possessing the secret of Joy where a character having escaped FGM as a child seeks it out as an adult in order to better belong.

We tell ourselves that we do things for ourselves but even as adult women I think that we are concerned with fitting in with other women. Witness the politics of the school gates as an example!

So I think that this desire to be accepted by her cohort is so strong for a teenage girl that she is even willing to harm her body in order to belong to the group, self harm, eating disorders and suicide chat groups are all an example of this.

I think that in gathering/hunting communities the emotional and practical support from female friends may have been more consistent across a lifetime and more significant than romantic or reproductive relationships between men and women. So the current social contagion we see is simply that survival need to be part of a close female friendship group played out in the modern world.

We gain ever greater understanding about how babies are essentially the same today as they were in pre history and evolved in a time and place where separation from the mothers body meant likely not surviving at all and how that relates to kangaroo mother care, the fourth trimester and why babies cry when they are not being held. I think perhaps we could help and support older children and teenagers by understanding their development in similar terms.

(By the way Our babies, Ourselves by Meredith Small, Touching by Ashley Montagu, Why love matters by Sue Gerhardt are all quite fascinating on this topic regarding babies.)

DaisiesandButtercups · 03/04/2021 13:21

No I don’t think we can pin social contagion (or striving for connection through shared values and experiences) on social media, I really believe it is a natural part of being a teenage girl but social media seems to have a tendency to exacerbate and perpetuate harmful values among teenage girls.

Scout2016 · 03/04/2021 14:10

I think some might perceive glam women as having an easier time of it and so not able to understand the lives of the less glam. People often couple up or group by attractiveness too, it's really interesting. Likewise when you see couples who look like they might be siblings / mother and daughter.

I have definitely got fed when up on nights out with a naturally glam friend gets bloke after bloke coming over to compliment her. Before anyone says have sympathy
she doesn't mind it at all. Likewise i felt a bit put out when a male friend told me all his mates thought another of my friends was fit, and how unusual that was because they didn't normally fancy the same women. I kick myself but I did feel a bit pissed off at him because the flip side is "none of them fancy you, even though we all have different tastes no one likes you." You have to feel secure in yourself not to worry about being paler in comparison.

There's an element of hierarchy of need too...in historically famine counties anorexia wasn't a thing, now in China they are seeing increasing numbers. In Irreversible Damage Shrier talks about how lots of kids have had it fairly cushy and not been challenged or tested, then real life starts to creep in and they have no coping mechanisms.

As for social media, I can't imagine how having people actively "like" or, by not "liking" dislike, your comments or imagines must feel. It's all so up front. You'd easily get hung up on it. "Why did 30 like this post and only 20 that one? Oh no, I've lost a follower, who and why?"
I don't remember spending much time worrying about if people did or didn't like me but there wasn't that means of qualifying and measuring. Adolescents are really ego centric so that just can't be healthy.

Scout2016 · 03/04/2021 14:11

*Quantify not qualify

Bbq1 · 03/04/2021 14:17

@drspouse

There were some very silly and young teenage workers when the school leaving age was younger, too. All those tales of sending the apprentice to the stores for a long weight or striped paint. They were all living at home with Mum and having their washing and cooking done and still having a curfew "while you're under my roof".
My mum left school in 1960 and school leavers were definitely more mature then. People married younger again too, again more mature. Your point about the curfew is exactly what I'm talking about. My mum didn't have a curfew at 15 because she was mature enough to behave sensibly and make the right decisions unlike some young people today.
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