Normalisation of sex work

[MaryGubbins]

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mum-who-lost-job-lockdown-23819036.amp

This popped up on my face book today. And while I’m not personally condemning the woman in question the comments were so disheartening. Along the long the lines of “good on her” “well done.”

Sorry, underneath this is a story that a woman who has fallen on hard times has resorted to sex work. I think that at any other point in history we’d consider that, well, at least a bit shit.

Young men posting - saying it’s nothing to be ashamed of, an honest days work etc. I wonder how they would feel in a hypothetical world where the job centre said “well it’s honest work so get your bits out for cash on the internet for blokes to see or your benefits are sanctioned.”

Young men posting - saying it’s nothing to be ashamed of, an honest days work etc. It would be interesting to see how many of these men felt so strongly that sex work is work that they put themselves through further education by doing something similar. How many of these men would consider dating a sex worker and being open with their friends and family and their boss about how she makes her living?

If a woman decides that’s how she wants to earn her money, then I certainly won’t judge her. But nobody can see the women in Holbeck and think these women are there because that’s the career choice they’ve made. And claiming that sex work is work belittles what these women are forced to do to get through life.

Holbeck in the Lake District?

No it's in south Leeds. It's a "managed zone" where prostitution is legal.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-54819248

[quote ColourMagic]The 2007 Jobcentre Ads referred to in this article are not for shop assistants, bouncers or Lingerie designers, but for escorts.

'The job description reads: "Duties involve providing clients with a personal escort service in an unsupervised environment.

"Experience is preferred but is not essential. Duties will involve escorting and accompanying members of the public which may cause embarrassment to some people.'

fighthumantraffickingnews.blogspot.com/2007/08/charity-condemns-escort-job-ads-august.html[/quote]
Badly worded. If they had substituted the word 'Hosting' or 'Hostess' for escort, it would not have had the sexual connotation. There are jobs which involve 'escorting' people in the sense of showing them around, chaperoning them even, if they are in unfamiliar surroundings.

[quote Ereshkigalangcleg]No it's in south Leeds. It's a "managed zone" where prostitution is legal.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-54819248[/quote]
Looks grim to me. 'Working the streets' is terribly dangerous; I think punters approaching school kids illustrates the danger very well.

Holbeck an area in a major UK city:

From needles for weapons to prostitutes high on heroin, the ‘legal’ red light area of Holbeck in Leeds is plagued with troubles as authorities turn a blind eye... drug-addicted girls perform sex acts for £20. Last week a prostitute was deliberately run over and badly injured by one of her clients."

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6856713/holbeck-red-light-district-plagued-with-needles-and-prostitutes/

'I worry they are trafficked': is the UK's first 'legal' red light zone working?

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/jun/29/worry-trafficked-uk-first-legal-red-light-zone-leeds-holbeck?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

That is scary, Rabbit.

I have known women who worked as prostitutes and none of them - not one - ever called it "sex work" or described themselves as "sex workers".

Jess Stan

Are there really “hosting” jobs which involve showing people round for between 2-15 hours day or night which may cause embarrassment to some people (from the advert). What else could these jobs be?

Also the comments in the blog colour magic linked to are all escort agencies taking the opportunity to advertise themselves (eugh).

I think it's not as simple as sex work = terrible / women being exploited. It' a lot more nuanced than that and there's a world of difference between a woman high on heroin giving a blow job for £20 and other forms of sex work.

There's way more of that sort of sex work going on I'm afraid. All prostitution puts women at risk of health problems, stds, gynaecological problems, mental health deterioration. It puts women into contact with criminal elements, traffickers etc but you're right that there are other sides to it...

"Confusing love and sex: how the care system creates a context for grooming and child prostitution"

nordicmodelnow.org/2021/03/20/confusing-love-and-sex-how-the-care-system-creates-a-context-for-grooming-and-child-prostitution/

"I conducted 250 interviews in 40 countries, interviewed 50 survivors of the sex trade, and almost all of them told me the same story: don’t believe the ‘happy hooker’ myth you see on TV. In almost every case it’s actually slavery."

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-sex-worker-myth

Jolly hard work though. I imagine someone has to have a talent for it. Most of us couldn't do it.

There was a thread somewhere on MN about Punters (?) - a website where the clients rate the women. A lot of the adverse comments were about a lack of perceived enthusiasm or engagement. So, it might not be enough to have some degree of talent. (tbh, I'm not sure if there is talent or if it's stimulating enough that the purchasing party is carrying out what a transgressive transaction for many people.)

I think some people are very good at entering into a fantasy and acting it out convincingly, EmbarrassingAdmissions. They might even enjoy doing that without actually enjoying the performance in a sexual way.

Looks grim to me. 'Working the streets' is terribly dangerous; I think punters approaching school kids illustrates the danger very well.

If you are interested Jess Stan, there is a documentary series on the women in Holbeck. It can be upsetting but worth watching the reality and yes, it is grim. I don't know how anyone could watch this and continue abusing these women.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04045rz

Sorry jesstan, I typed your name incorrrectly.

[quote RabbitOfCaerbannog]There's way more of that sort of sex work going on I'm afraid. All prostitution puts women at risk of health problems, stds, gynaecological problems, mental health deterioration. It puts women into contact with criminal elements, traffickers etc but you're right that there are other sides to it...

"Confusing love and sex: how the care system creates a context for grooming and child prostitution"

nordicmodelnow.org/2021/03/20/confusing-love-and-sex-how-the-care-system-creates-a-context-for-grooming-and-child-prostitution/

"I conducted 250 interviews in 40 countries, interviewed 50 survivors of the sex trade, and almost all of them told me the same story: don’t believe the ‘happy hooker’ myth you see on TV. In almost every case it’s actually slavery."

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-sex-worker-myth[/quote]
I have also interviewed women working in the sex industry although many years ago now, well before Only Fans or even cam girls - the 'lower risk' end at that time was phone sex handlers and I second the information expressed in the quote above. It was very clear to me that the 'happy hooker' trope is frequently a coping strategy for those trapped in the sex industry of those who left it not one was positive about it (or, for that matter, about men) and admitted that had I asked while they were doing it they would have told me it was fine and their choice. Once out of it they were able to see that they had been protecting themselves with that idea. Even those who told me it was ok at the time (those who hadn't yet left the industry) conceded that they would rather be doing something else.

Anecdotal of course as it comes from interviews but I interviewed a lot of women some younger than I found comfortable who have stayed in my mind.

I don't mind.
It's a mixture of 'Jessica' and 'Stanley', after two of my (late) pets who were known as 'Jess' and 'Stan'. Not my real name.

The PankhurstConnection: Thanks for the link. I may watch the programme if I can face it and am in the mood. Things like that do trigger intrusive thoughts sometimes, I'm easy spooked.

@jessstan2

I don't mind. It's a mixture of 'Jessica' and 'Stanley', after two of my (late) pets who were known as 'Jess' and 'Stan'. Not my real name.

The PankhurstConnection: Thanks for the link. I may watch the programme if I can face it and am in the mood. Things like that do trigger intrusive thoughts sometimes, I'm easy spooked.

It is, by no means, an easy watch. The episodes are short so you can space them out. If you think they will upset you I understand avoiding. Worth watching for the women though, it really drives the issues home.

@VladmirsPoutine

I think it's not as simple as sex work = terrible / women being exploited. It' a lot more nuanced than that and there's a world of difference between a woman high on heroin giving a blow job for £20 and other forms of sex work.

It actually is quite simple. It's all prostitution and no matter how desperately you try to tart it up, prettify it, hide the reality or normalise it women will never be equal with men as long as prostitution is considered acceptable.

Even no-contact practices, like OnlyFans (if it stays online, which some don't) results in harm to the women involved.

Back in the Jurassic era, I knew a bunch of young women who did what then was known as "peep shows", where men would spy on women but not touch them (that cost a lot extra). The women I knew were smart, and talked a good game about "exploiting" the men that paid to watch them, and they vowed to do it just long enough to, eg, raise a rent deposit on a flat, but they never saved anything. They all, to a woman, used the money they earned to cheer themselves up - drugs, taxis, booze. (This is at a time when a taxi was an unimaginable luxury.) I saw it damage them, and they saw it too - but only after they stopped doing it.

"It actually is quite simple. It's all prostitution and no matter how desperately you try to tart it up, prettify it, hide the reality or normalise it women will never be equal with men as long as prostitution is considered acceptable."

Yes. I don't always agree with you but I am right with you on this issue and agree that women will never be truly free while prostitution (and porn imo) exist.

@ArcheryAnnie

Even no-contact practices, like OnlyFans (if it stays online, which some don't) results in harm to the women involved.

Back in the Jurassic era, I knew a bunch of young women who did what then was known as "peep shows", where men would spy on women but not touch them (that cost a lot extra). The women I knew were smart, and talked a good game about "exploiting" the men that paid to watch them, and they vowed to do it just long enough to, eg, raise a rent deposit on a flat, but they never saved anything. They all, to a woman, used the money they earned to cheer themselves up - drugs, taxis, booze. (This is at a time when a taxi was an unimaginable luxury.) I saw it damage them, and they saw it too - but only after they stopped doing it.

It isn't just the direct harm. People often ignore the ripple effect of these practices on EVERY SINGLE woman and girl, affecting how their sex is perceived by society.

Your second paragraph resonates with what I have listened to, it is rare to meet the woman in the sex industry who doesn't self medicate to varying degrees.

The sex industry is so empowering and so full of those willing to do it they need to traffick people in against their will. As someone else once said where are all the traffiked computer programmers and accountants? Why do we never hear about that?

The women I knew were smart, and talked a good game about "exploiting" the men that paid to watch them

That's a good point- why would we as a society want to encourage or normalise a commercial activity which has the aim, indeed its success is dependent on, exploiting the other party.

Please be clear I'm not in any way suggesting we should have any sympathy for the men but it's not a very healthy mindset to start conducting your means of livelihood. One party is revelling in exploiting the other and the other , in all probability, revelling in the fact he can exploit the woman by paying her not very much to perform an act most women wouldn't do.

Of course exploitation exists in commercial contracts but society should be aiming to remove exploitation, not make it the bedrock of the transaction.

One party is revelling in exploiting the other

MissBarbary just to be clear, the women I knew talked a good game about "expoiting" the men involved. I don't believe for a second that any of them really believed it. It was a way of explaining to themselves how they could survive doing it. It didn't work.

@ArcheryAnnie

One party is revelling in exploiting the other

MissBarbary just to be clear, the women I knew talked a good game about "expoiting" the men involved. I don't believe for a second that any of them really believed it. It was a way of explaining to themselves how they could survive doing it. It didn't work.

Yes I get that point. This justification gets made quite often on here by thd pro pimp and punter lobby "don't feel sorry for the "sex workers, it's the idiot men ruled by their dicks who are being exploited"

If it's true it's a terrible mindset and if as you say , it's not true how terrible must your work be to have to tell yourself that to make it palatable.