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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

My response to school RSE consultation (Jigsaw Primary)

18 replies

ValancyRedfern · 01/04/2021 12:40

Hi, I'd really appreciate it if you wonderful women could take a look at my response to dd's school RSE consultation. I think it needs editing down but I don't want to miss any points. Any tips on how to make it clearer and more concise would be much appreciated!

As a parent/carer, do you feel like you need more information or guidance on specific topics?

I would like further information and clarification on some areas of the curriculum which concern me:

I understand that the ground rules in the Jigsaw Charter say ‘we respect each other’s privacy (confidentiality)’. While I understand the aims of this in stopping students gossiping, I am concerned children could interpret this as that it is wrong to tell their parents what has been discussed in PSHE lessons, or, even worse, if anyone in any context tells them something is a secret or confidential, they will think they should respect this, which is highly concerning and increases their vulnerability to grooming and abuse. I see that ‘Secrets’ is a topic in Yr2, please could I have more information on the content of the lessons related to this? I asked my daughter and she said she learned it was wrong to tell a secret someone had told you. This raises grave safeguarding concerns.

I am very happy to see ‘I am starting to understand that sometimes people make assumptions about boys and girls (stereotypes)’ in Year 2. I assume that the content of this topic challenges gender stereotypes, which is something that is extremely important to me. Is this topic returned to in KS2? I would like to see this given more time in the PSHE curriculum as the students get older and become more susceptible to peer pressure regarding how girls and boys ‘should’ behave.

Gender diversity is also a topic in Year 2. Please could I see the lesson content relating to this? Does this relate to the concept of gender identity? I would like reassurance that the content of this topic does not reinforce gender stereotypes.

In the Jigsaw LGBT Parent Leaflet, there is information on a Year 5/6 lesson on the topic of being Transgender. The information states that children will be taught that ‘A transgender person doesn’t feel their body matches with their gender. Let me explain.... a person that is born with a male body may feel they are female, and a person born with a female body may feel they are male’. What feelings will the school be teaching correspond with feeling male, and what with feeling female? How will the school ensure that these examples don’t reinforce gender stereotypes? The leaflet continues: ‘Some transgender people change their appearance or body so their gender matches with how they feel’. This implies that gender is the outward appearance of someone. How will this be explained to the children without reinforcing gender stereotypes?

Related to the above, I would also like to know how Jigsaw defines and explains the term ‘gender’ to the children. I am aware of three common interpretations of the word: a) stereotypes, b) a synonym for sex, c) a sense of an inner identity of being male, female or neither. Which interpretation does Jigsaw use, and does it explain there are different beliefs held by different people around gender? The example sentences in point 4 above seem inconsistent and unclear on what they mean by gender. (I may cut this bit out - worried it will just be gobbledegook to anyone not steeped in this stuff)

This lesson gives me grave concerns that children may conclude that someone who doesn’t conform to gender stereotypes is transgender, and appears to contravene the guidance issued by the DfE:

"We are aware that topics involving gender and biological sex can be complex and sensitive matters to navigate. You should not reinforce harmful stereotypes, for instance by suggesting that children might be a different gender based on their personality and interests or the clothes they prefer to wear. Resources used in teaching about this topic must always be age-appropriate and evidence based. Materials which suggest that non-conformity to gender stereotypes should be seen as synonymous with having a different gender identity should not be used and you should not work with external agencies or organisations that produce such material. While teachers should not suggest to a child that their non-compliance with gender stereotypes means that either their personality or their body is wrong and in need of changing, teachers should always seek to treat individual students with sympathy and support."

OP posts:
ValancyRedfern · 01/04/2021 12:49

Some of the info I've used is linked in this thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4036363-Does-anyone-have-access-to-Jigsaw-PSHE-lesson-plans

OP posts:
Olderstyle1 · 01/04/2021 13:52

Dashing off to do something similar OP but this looks excellent. Will return (and probably nick bits if I may!).

persistentwoman · 01/04/2021 14:13

This looks great OP. We need to be asking teachers to clarify what they are actually telling children. There's so little due diligence about this stuff with a total acceptance of the message that groups give with no deep thought about the confusions and incoherent messages that this gives to young children. No application of principles of child psychology / development which teachers know or have access to bt fail to apply - either through fear of the bullying response they'll likely get or because they don't realise that these are written by 'self identified experts' who know little about child development, safeguarding, parenting and the rest.
My main suggestion would be to explicitly number and highlight your questions so that they stand out and require a specific response to each.

mrsnibblesisahero · 01/04/2021 22:46

Marking my place to do similar, this is great.

ValancyRedfern · 01/04/2021 23:02

Thank you all. Good tip to number and highlight the questions.

OP posts:
KillingMeDeftly · 19/04/2021 18:25

Hello, I just found this thread as my child's school has announced that they'll be using Jigsaw to deliver SRE. They are using the Jigsaw Mindfulness curriculum, so I'm not sure if it's the same as what's discussed here. What is concerning is that the school website says Jigsaw is fully compliant with DfE guidance, yet the LGBT booklet that I've seen doesn't appear to be. So I'm not sure if the school is saying that only the aspect that'll be delivered is compliant. It's a little perturbing, I must say, and I'm wondering how to raise concerns without being labelled a bigot!

persistentwoman · 19/04/2021 18:31

KillingMeDeftly
Have a look at Safe Schools Alliance - they have a page of draft letters for parents to adapt for their school. Here:

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/resources-2/letter-templates/

KillingMeDeftly · 19/04/2021 18:46

Thanks @persistentwoman. There's a meeting with the school later in the week to discuss the curriculum.

persistentwoman · 19/04/2021 19:41

Hopefully the SSAUK site offers some useful questions to ask KillingMeDeftly.
The last para in the OP's first post is a useful quote from the DfE guidelines and my advice would be to quote from the guidelines (if you're worried about anything that's said) as they're child centred and very clear about age appropriateness, schools checking carefully materials used and not selling kids fantasies based on stereotypes..

Staffroomdoughnut · 19/04/2021 19:47

Valid points. Coherently put.

ValancyRedfern · 19/04/2021 20:26

@killingmedeftly I have seen many resources which claim to be compliant with the new DfE guidance but which I don't think are, sadly. We really need Ofsted to get on it.

OP posts:
FluffMagnet · 19/04/2021 20:36

Is it worth expressing concern about discussing being "in the wrong body" at the time puberty begins? Being a time when most people dislike the changes and their new body, especially girls.

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 19/04/2021 20:46

Fantastic letter, Valancy, good for you.

I thought your paragraph on the different meanings of gender was actually very clear, and I don’t think it would come across as gobbledegook even to someone without a clue. I think it’s a good one to leave in, but obvs your call.

OhHolyJesus · 22/04/2021 11:36

I saw this, this morning and thought it relevant to this, hope you don't mind OP.

Why are we not putting sex ed materials online for parents to review as a matter of standard practice? Does anyone know any schools, LEAs or Trusts that do this?

kyma.com/education/2021/04/20/arizona-governor-issues-executive-order-on-sex-education/

bingowingsmcgee · 22/04/2021 12:44

I'm just pulling mine out. I don't trust that school know what they're doing in this realm at all.

RumiStar · 10/07/2022 00:59

Hi
have you had experience of what happens if you want to withdraw from mandatory aspects of RSE?

ValancyRedfern · 10/07/2022 09:12

Hi all. I've seen I never updated this thread. I didn't hear back from the school for a long time and had to keep pestering, but eventually a Deputy Head phoned me and we had a really good, wide ranging conversation. I also sent a follow up email about a lesson for Yr3 that was suggesting a girl who didn't like girls' toys (presented as a thing, no problematising or suggesting there's no such thing) was non-binary (didn't use that word, but implication clear). They agreed not to use that lesson and also understood my points and asked for further recommendations from me and I sent them some epic follow up emails with lots of links to SSA and Transgender Trend. They has looked at the SSA website and gleaned good information from there. It was a really positive conversation. Sadly we are moving so I'll have to do it all again with a new school next year!

With regards to withdrawing, parents are only allowed to withdraw kids from the teaching about sex (ie sexual intercourse) we have no right to withdraw them from PSHE as a whole.

OP posts:
cigiwi · 10/07/2022 09:35

OP, you say
Related to the above, I would also like to know how Jigsaw defines and explains the term ‘gender’ to the children. I am aware of three common interpretations of the word: a) stereotypes, b) a synonym for sex, c) a sense of an inner identity of being male, female or neither. Which interpretation does Jigsaw use, and does it explain there are different beliefs held by different people around gender? The example sentences in point 4 above seem inconsistent and unclear on what they mean by gender. (I may cut this bit out - worried it will just be gobbledegook to anyone not steeped in this stuff)

I don't think you should cut this out; it is important.

I would expand it, rather. A suggestion:

"I would also like to know how Jigsaw defines and explains the term ‘gender’ to the children:

The OED has different explanations under its definition (3), which is the relevant one here:
(i) Males or females viewed as a group; (= SEX)
(ii) The state of being male or female as expressed by social or cultural distinctions and differences, rather than biological ones.
(iii) [T]he collective attributes or traits associated with a particular sex, or determined as a result of one's sex.

In recent times the term 'gender' has been used, in a different proposed sense, in the neologism 'gender identity' (which the OED notes without defining), which seems to be intended to refer to some kind of 'inner state' which may engender distress at normal biological sexual development in children. I would be very concerned to find this usage offered to the children, particularly in the light of investigations and conclusions such as this (by Alex Byrne, Professor of Philosophy at M.I.T.): "If there is some kind of “gender identity” that is universal in humans, and which causes dysphoria when mismatched with sex, it remains elusive. No one has yet found a way of detecting its presence". (See medium.com/arc-digital/what-is-gender-identity-10ce0da71999.)

In short, current controversy over the notion of 'gender identity' is such that its use in teaching children can, at best, confuse. (I am aware that some teachers may be confused about this, also.) Best, all round, to eschew the notion tout court, whilst being crystal clear about the notion of 'gender' itself and its relation to social and/or cultural distinctions and differences.

The importance of this matter is clear, I am sure. Does Jigsaw use the term 'gender identity'? If so, you should not use Jigsaw to offer RSE in our school."

As for 'gobbledegook': this is clear enough (as is your original). We should expect our schools and their managers and employees, to be able to understand all this. It is important for our children that they do.

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