Another case worth noting.

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/24/fatal-truth-how-the-suicide-of-alex-reid-exposed-the-hidden-death-toll-of-domestic-violence

Just read this, feeling equally sad and angry.

"Not being believed" says it all.

Yet another terrible story.

Very sad, and better data should probably be collected on this. However I'm not sure I agree with making someone else culpable for a suicide. Slippery slope I think.

@Leafstamp

Very sad, and better data should probably be collected on this. However I'm not sure I agree with making someone else culpable for a suicide. Slippery slope I think.

I don't agree that it's a slippery slope. There has only been one conviction for manslaughter in a case of suicide by a woman who was abused, and the evidence against her husband was incontrovertible. The burden of proof is rightly very high.

We do have the data that on average 30 women who have been victims of domestic abuse attempt suicide and every week three women who have been victims of domestic abuse kill themselves. For various reasons, this is underresearched and underreported, but it is happening and a causal link between suicidal ideation and domestic abuse has been demonstrated by a number of studies.

It would be irresponsible to use this data in the type of emotional blackmail that is common in various other contemporary discourses, but it is not irresponsible to point out that victims of domestic abuse are at a higher risk of suicide than those who have not been abused. This is one more burden of domestic abuse that these women bear and something that should be considered much more than it currently is.

Correction to my comment - that should have been "30 women a week"

Fair points Charley. The way the article was phrased made it sound to me like they wanted the burden of proof lessened, which made me think of it being a slippery slope.

I'm also aware that I commented on a (now deleted thread about trans children) saying that the causes of suicide are generally multi-factorial and the Samaritans recommend avoiding reporting speculation over the "trigger" of a suicide.

I didn't want to be hypocritical.

However, I accept that it's pretty obvious that if someone is being severely abused then it's not illogical for it to increase suicidal feelings.

I wonder if someone was put under severe stress at work, that was also illegal in terms of employment law then the company can be charged for corporate manslaughter if the person dies by suicide? Not sure if that's a fair comparison but seems to be not far off.

for Alex and her bereaved family.
What a terrible story. We (society) have to invest in better response services than this for women.

this is a very sad story.

However, I wonder how sure the police are that it was suicide. Given that this man displayed almost psychopathic tendencies towards Alex and by the sound of it, previous partners, there may be room for doubt. It doesn't quite add up. Obviously I can imagine the hopelessness Alex must have felt but he hadn't managed to isolate her from her support network and her family were desperately trying to help her.

I hope the police investigated it extremely thoroughly and/or there was incontrovertible evidence that he wasn't there at the time.

It made me think of this terrible situation where deaths of ten elderly people (couples) were put down to murder/suicide (by the husbands against the wives). There was a lot of evidence against that theory (some of the elderly husbands who supposedly murdered their wives weren't physically capable of inflicting the injuries, odd positioning of bodies, totally out of character) but the police decided it was that anyway.

Now it seems that there may have been a serial killer and a suspect has been named.

My trust in the police is fairly low at the moment - I know most are good people doing a good thing but there seem to be too many bad ones and a lack of leadership setting appropriate priorities - take the inhuman treatment suffered by 19 yr old Shana Grice from the police - it contributed directly to her murder.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8678513/Serial-killer-prime-suspect-targeting-elderly-couples-90s-NAMED.html

I agree that the suicide verdict should be watertight, and in terms of culpabaility in other scenarios, such as work related, it would be much more difficult to prove - duty of care is tricky to define and practise with regard to apparently non-vulnerable adults.

I just looked at the elderly couples article as I clocked it unfolding a while ago and I'm glad it's being re-visited, as the ability of the alleged perpetrators in each case to enact such violence from a purely practical point of view seemed dubious. I didn't realise there were up to ten couples involved now - hideous.

I know that neither murder suicide nor being the victim of a serial killer is palatable for relatives, but honestly, I'd want it thoroughly investigated over living with such a horrible thing in my head that my DF had done such a thing forever. Yes it does happen of course, and being elderly does not make a person immune to committing horrible crimes, but still......

Suicide can be such a grey area - just recently a potential murder case has collapsed because there wasn't enough evidence to prove murder, accident or other, yet there was alot of very dodgy financial stuff occurring that implied motive.

How police investigate needs a shake up IMO. On one hand you get a handy innocent suspect being hounded into jail, then you have other cases where wrapping up a case quickly might miss vital clues not immediately obvious. It's easy to believe that the police are motivated by a sense of fairness and justice for victims, but bureaucracy and funding issues may over-ride more thorough investigation.

It's all very messy and often tragic.