Trevor Philips in the Times today

[ErrolTheDragon]

His columns are usually worth a read - this is on freedom of speech issues espe in universities

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/student-puritans-play-into-the-tories-hands-kvjnvnv5n?shareToken=c07fd75e30bb1c998569b0996c4d9969

Also there's this

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/liam-fox-urges-politicians-to-defend-public-figures-such-as-jk-rowling-against-bullying-mob-zvbwtw59g?shareToken=5180f71cee9081afe1ccb3479536c221

Re JKR:
“The sinister part was that it was not a counterattack or riposte to the views she had posted but an attempt to delegitimise her and thus her intervention.”

Both good articles. Trevor Phillips is excellent and is bang on about handing the future to the Tories. I'm naturally centre left but I will probably find myself voting Tory in the next election purely to stop Labour, with their ridiculous obsession with identity politics and TWAW mantras, from getting in. I'm anti Brexit, anti austery, anti privatisation and spoiled my vote at the last election because I didn't want to vote in endorsement of those things. But I don't want to spoil another vote and I can't vote Labour, Lib Dem or Green while they continue to piss on women. So it's Tory or nothing.

Thanks for those. Used up my two articles yesterday. Going to have a mull on how intelligent the seemingly unsackable Liar Fox sounds in that second article. Can't be him verbotum surely?

I'm a floating voter in the same boat SirSamuel

I wonder about the discussions that will be taking place in Whitehall this morning after last night's appalling attack on the police. The govt may need to get to grips with a culture that has emerged on their watch, of those who feel entitled to act on their feelings in any way they like regardless of impact on others, that a bandwagon attracts those who just enjoy releasing antisocial feeling and behaviours and a cause that offers opportunity to do so, and are no longer able to recognise or act on standard boundaries of social behaviour.

When you create situations politically in which some people can get away with behaviours that others can't - and expect to, and wish to push the limits of this - and where feelings create reality and not facts, and a good rage/acting out successfully pressures organisations into giving what is wanted because 'no' and standing up to tantrums has become a lost skill and there's no backbone for it - there's a price for this. It isn't the way to a peaceful, successful (or inclusive) society.

I'm in exactly the same position. I'm now resigned to never seeing another Labour Gov in my lifetime.

Does JK Rowling need protection from “the bullying of the mob”?

Its not really about her but the people like Maya who she is standing up for.

The govt may need to get to grips with a culture that has emerged on their watch

Why on earth would they, when they're being so successful at blaming things that happen on their watch, on everyone else?

All these developments happened under a Tory government, so obviously we must vote for another Tory government to stop these things.

And when I say "happened on their watch", in some cases I mean "were actively done by the current, Tory, government."

The elite Oxbridge debating societies have long provided a rite of passage for Conservative prime ministers, including Boris Johnson. They give us an early sight of the character of future leaders. Michael Gove arrived at Oxford and instantly became what he himself describes as a “votary” of Boris Johnson. Theresa May never won the top varsity job but she would probably say that student politics gave her a greater prize: she was introduced to her husband, Philip, himself a president of the Union, by Benazir Bhutto, later to become prime minister of Pakistan and herself the first woman of colour to occupy the chair.

Don't worry, little woman, at least you found yourself a husband and that is most important.

Does JK Rowling need protection from “the bullying of the mob”?

Its not really about her but the people like Maya who she is standing up for.

Considering she had to up her security and received numerous deaths and rape threats, yes I think JKR does deserve protection. As does every woman who needs it.

@zanahoria

Does JK Rowling need protection from “the bullying of the mob”?

Its not really about her but the people like Maya who she is standing up for.

Why should JKR have to put up with the level of abuse and bullying? Are you suggesting it is ok to threaten people if they can afford a security guard? OK to subject them to hate and filth if they have been successful? To slander them anonymously because they have money to buy food?

@Socrates11

Thanks for those. Used up my two articles yesterday. Going to have a mull on how intelligent the seemingly unsackable Liar Fox sounds in that second article. Can't be him verbotum surely?

Perhaps he's got the benefit of a speechwriter? A profession which I'd guess is pretty interested in freedom of speech and very aware of the ways in which it's challenged.

@PerkingFaintly

And when I say "happened on their watch", in some cases I mean "were actively done by the current, Tory, government."

What developments do you mean, PerkingFaintly? And what has been actively done by the current Tory government?

I was under the impression it was the LibDems, Greens and Labour that were pushing identity politics more and that (some (most?) not all) Tories were obstructing this.

The whole reform of the GRA was brought forward by the Tories. Maria Miller called women "fake feminists" for raising concerns about conflicting rights.

I was under the impression...

Of course. Because there has been dedicated messaging to this effect – including by a particularly energetic poster on MN early on.

But even the poster promoting Conservatives for Women admitted that the reason the group had been formed was that the other Tory women's group "didn't know what a woman was".

So no, it's not a case of Tory = pro-women's rights, everyone else = anti-women's rights.

They've played a blinder to make this some sort of accepted wisdom, though. I have to hand it to them.

Madness to keep voting Tory when their hands are as dirty as all the other parties?

Yes, I agree. I was shocked to find a cabinet member at that absolute farce of the ONS court case, demonstrating the cabinet are clearly fully on side with erasing sex as a concept, buggering up national statistics and to hell with women and women's rights and realities. While looking serious on the news and making nice noises about women's rights. It's all image, no substance and I trust them as far as I can spit.

But to vote at present for any other party means bringing into power a group that will gallop at full charge into joyful destruction of women and sex based rights, and aren't just duplicitous with possibly some mixed feelings and people who are aware, but are committed full blast to dangerous insanity. So no thanks.

Having to choose your vote not on who you want and support, but who you think is going to cause the least amount of damage, is not exactly a fun voter experience. But it's been the reality for some years now.

Sorry about the diversion here, new poster. Can anyone tell me how to register for two free articles from The Times? Also wondering if anyone would mind giving me a share token link for the letters page because I want to see what people have said about Matthew Parris's article from Saturday?
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/times-letters-everards-death-and-male-attitudes-to-women-rln7xkphn

Thank you!

So no, it's not a case of Tory = pro-women's rights, everyone else = anti-women's rights.

I don't think this in the first place. What I think I'd that lobby groups like Stonewall have been attacking the government and civil service from all directions. Everyone was going along with it to 'be kind' and win easy woke points. But the Tory party have woken up to the fact that they can't slip stuff through quietly anymore, that their party members aren't keen on dicks in the girls' changing rooms, and that it's not a vote winner with the general public. So they are backing off.

Whereas for Labour, Lib Dem and Green, the party members are more likely to insist TWAW and back #nodebate, and would crucify any leader who said otherwise.

I also keep coming back to the very simple idea "actions speak louder than words". Which party has had female leaders? Tory. Which party had a female PM? A female Asain home secretary? An Asian chancellor?

It's labour who have gone from white male to white male to white male, while simultaneously claiming they can't tell what a male is.

@PerkingFaintly

The whole reform of the GRA was brought forward by the Tories. Maria Miller called women "fake feminists" for raising concerns about conflicting rights.

Maria Miller is not part of the current Tory leadership though. Johnson got rid of her in (I think) his first reshuffle. And self id appears to have departed with her, thankfully.

What other developments were there?

@zanahoria

Does JK Rowling need protection from “the bullying of the mob”?

Its not really about her but the people like Maya who she is standing up for.

By standing up for Rowling he would be standing up for all of us, including Maya.

The abuse that Rowling received and the lack of any political denunciation of it sent a message loud and clear, an example was made of her. We knew that we must keep silent or suffer the consequences. The other lot knew that they could get away with keeping us silent and perpetuating falsehoods with impunity. Freedom of speech lost and the win was another step towards totalitarianism.

@AnIdentityCrisis

Sorry about the diversion here, new poster. Can anyone tell me how to register for two free articles from The Times? Also wondering if anyone would mind giving me a share token link for the letters page because I want to see what people have said about Matthew Parris's article from Saturday? www.thetimes.co.uk/article/times-letters-everards-death-and-male-attitudes-to-women-rln7xkphn

Thank you!

Share tokens don't seem to be available for the letters page, I'm afraid.

I think MichelleofzeResistance and SirSamuelVimes have answered that one for you, DifficultBloodyWoman.

Look, if you want to vote Tory, vote Tory. Indeed, join the Tories. I personally would cheer if the Conservative party had more people in it working for women's rights, and for the values that SirSamuelVimes expressed, rather than the Jacob Rees-Moggs and the Boris Johnsons.

@SirSamuelVimes

So no, it's not a case of Tory = pro-women's rights, everyone else = anti-women's rights.

I don't think this in the first place. What I think I'd that lobby groups like Stonewall have been attacking the government and civil service from all directions. Everyone was going along with it to 'be kind' and win easy woke points. But the Tory party have woken up to the fact that they can't slip stuff through quietly anymore, that their party members aren't keen on dicks in the girls' changing rooms, and that it's not a vote winner with the general public. So they are backing off.

Whereas for Labour, Lib Dem and Green, the party members are more likely to insist TWAW and back #nodebate, and would crucify any leader who said otherwise.

I also keep coming back to the very simple idea "actions speak louder than words". Which party has had female leaders? Tory. Which party had a female PM? A female Asain home secretary? An Asian chancellor?

It's labour who have gone from white male to white male to white male, while simultaneously claiming they can't tell what a male is.

Teresa May got shafted with being a caretaker to do the unpalatable before they brought a man back in who could blame her for anything bad and taking credit for anything good.

I can’t help but wonder if the Home Secretary and chancellor appointments are being used to give a veneer of inclusive untouchable policy and practice while in reality both are a party strategic decision to facilitate change which would get attacked if coming from an old white Etonian.

Ah that's a shame it looked interesting on this. Thank you for trying!

Sorry that was to ErrolTheDragon, and apologies for clogging up the thread off topic.

Well yes, Theresa May got glass-cliffed. Usually there's room for doubt on whether that's what actually happened – but not this time, because Johnson and Gove were the actual public face of the Brexit campaign, ran away like little boys when the post of Prime Minister during the clusterfuck came up, and then Johnson oiled back in for what he imagined would be the triumphant moment. That isn't opportunities for women; it's women will clean up the boys' mess.

But that's possibly drifting off-topic. Unless the topic is, are the Tories likely to be better or worse for women than any other party, in which case I suppose it's on topic.