Women's Equality Party

[LoveCauliflowerCheese]

Are they Gender Critical or not?

"We've decided, in the time honoured tradition of womanhood, we're going to sort out everyone's problems and then clean up all the mess"

Captured from the off. It's the fate of anything with 'woman' anywhere in its title, unless you have women leading it with very strong boundaries, ready and prepared for onslaught.

They have vaguely nice intentions a bit.

They're having a consultation on what a 'woman' is.

Seriously?

Why don’t they ask the Saudi’s who deny women any rights?
Why don’t they ask FGM cutters who they chose to cut?
Why don’t they ask old men who marry 9 year old girls?
Why don’t they ask the police - internationally - who ignore violence against women because it is a ‘domestic’?
Why don’t they ask villagers where hardly any girls are born?

There are sooooo many people they could ask who know exactly what a woman is, why the need for a consultation?

It's so British, isn't it?

We are the women's equality party. We're having a long and careful consultation on what we think a woman might be. And when we finally reach our careful conclusion....

what exactly do they fondly believe will come of it?

There are those they are unlikely to dare to offend. Most who would have cared about the definition to vote for them had their answer and gave up when they needed to have a consultation in the first place. Grass roots groups are actively engaging with and doing things for women while WEP doesn't seem to do much at all in any direction.

I keep thinking of that good old trope about if Moses had been a committee, the children of Israel would still be in Egypt.

They have vaguely nice intentions a bit.

What do we want? People to be nicer and fairer
When do we want it? As soon as the nasty people agree nicely to be nice, and the unfair agree, no pressure, sorry to mention it, to be fairer.

Is that about the size of it?

Most who would have cared about the definition to vote for them had their answer and gave up when they needed to have a consultation in the first place. Grass roots groups are actively engaging with and doing things for women while WEP doesn't seem to do much at all in any direction.

Ex-(founder) member here who spoke at conference in 2018 against a motion that was in favour of self-ID d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/womensequality/pages/5824/attachments/original/1535461278/Fnl_Gender_recognition_act_motion_final.pdf?1535461278 the motion was ‘referred back to committee’ (so not voted on; I think for fear of it either passing and women leaving the party or failing and the TRA backlash) - but that was 2 and a half years ago now and they’re still having a consultation? I got bored of waiting and gave up on them after Sophie Walker left (she attempted to remain neutral and support both sides to discuss) and Mandu Reid was voted in as leader who is openly TWAW. And I was someone who went out and canvassed hopeless elections for them just to engage with voters and get the message out as it were. I know many women have left them over this.

Now WEP have had some successes - www.womensequality.org.uk/victory_on_abortion_rights was a WEP backed campaign. There was also some successful pressure at the ballot box in the 2019 election where they stood candidates against sitting MPs accused of sexual harassment etc and I believe most if not all of them stood down. So exactly the kind of thing a women’s party should be doing. But whilst they refuse to recognise women’s sex-based rights, I cannot give my time, money and effort to them. It’s such a shame. Still. I can spend that money on independent crowdfunders and a donations to specific charities and campaigns; I can spend that time and effort writing letters and engaging directly. And hopefully attending feminist meetings and events once again when we’re all allowed out to play!

I’d love there to be a true feminist party. But there isn’t.

This thread is about the consultation.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4026351-Women-s-equality-party-consult-on-self-ID

They set up a citizens assembly of members. The assembly asked to hear evidence from various ppl including gender critical women (I can't remember who but I want to say jane clare jones, Alice sullivan, Karen Ingala smith, could be wrong). The assembly will then formulate questions to put out to the whole membership.

The wep gender criticals are called the 'sex based writes caucus' you can find them on twitter & they have a Web site.

It might be too late given everything that went before. But the consultation is a good idea. I hope a sustainable way forward comes out of it and (if so) other organisations follow the model. If other parties did this instead of signing up to twaw uncritically the whole landscape would be different.

Just pointing out that you don't even have to identify as a woman to be Women's Equality Party candidate - they have male candidates too...

www.womensequality.org.uk/conf18_policy-candidates

I genuinely can't imagine what kind of bloke you would have to join a Women's Equality organisation and then TAKE the place of a woman.

@EdgeOfACoin

They're having a consultation on what a 'woman' is.

It's not a great look for a party called The Women's Equality Party.

one of their representatives came on here a while ago and asked for our thoughts on something (can't remember exactly what - presumably not 'what is a woman' ).

Anyway, she received some thoughts and promised to take them back to the leadership (or something?) I can't really remember the details - I am not remotely interested in the WEP until they work out what a woman is.

I was so excited when the WEP launched that I would be able to actually use my vote. But......I read the manifesto and they are definitely not GC. I was so upset Sandi Toksvig left the News Quiz for a party that didn't think biological sex was important.

They actively campaigned for violent male Tara Hudson to be moved to a women’s prison.

Utterly pointless, and taking peoples membership money under false pretences as they claim to be pro women. Spineless and useless,

Because they have decided they are going to be NOTHING like their chosen name, it is now painfully obvious they are just a job creation/work experience scheme for their offspring, and friends offspring.

It is not as if they are even a focused charity assisting and helping girls and women outside their personal remits.

They suck up to the lobbying whiney in their sphere and bow/scrape "yes, sir".

Shame. But here we are, aye.

Change of leadership=hierarchy will do them a world of good.

Female focused politicians.

What Hermione said.

Grifters.

*whiney men

I always loved Sandi too. So shocking! Shameful in fact.

This was a few years ago. I met up with my niece, whom I seldom see, and she said she had joined the WEP. I asked entirely neutrally, "Oh, and what about those gender-critical women then?" and she said, "We call them TERFs". All right then. I don't know if she's still a member. One hopes not.

Is Sandi still involved with them?

I'd be surprised if she agreed that sex was irrelevant but who knows these days.

Catherine Mayer of WEP wrote a book called 'Attack of the 50ft Woman: how gender equality can save the world' which includes a chapter about someone who may or may not be a transwoman but freely states they wear 'women's' clothing and use women's spaces for sexual thrills and nice, middle-class Catherine, so thickly insulated from any effects (probably including actually having to share a space with them herself) waxes lyrical about how this person is as much of a woman as she is and therefore deserves free access to all women's spaces, boundaries are mean. To which I say in my broadest Scouse twang 'Nah, la!'

anyone got any thoughts on whether the responses to the Sarah Everard kidnap and murder will cause a re-think of women as a sex and whether that should include men?

I genuinely can't imagine what kind of bloke you would have to join a Women's Equality organisation and then TAKE the place of a woman.

I can absolutely imagine the kind of man who'd do that...

I met a few gender critical men at WEP conference. They were very very supportive and not seeking positions of authority at all. Aside from that the only other WEPpers I met who would have originally had male recorded on their birth certificates, did not call themselves men. And the two people of that category that I chatted to were not particularly interested in talking about anything apart from themselves really.

nice, middle-class Catherine, so thickly insulated from any effects (probably including actually having to share a space with them herself) waxes lyrical about how this person is as much of a woman as she is and therefore deserves free access to all women's spaces, boundaries are mean.

I’ve got a nice, middle-class, WEP-voting friend like this. She’s intelligent and highly perceptive, ‘privilege’-aware (albeit patchily) and a decent sort, but also TWAW. It’s baffling.