How does porn make you feel about yourself and men

[Wandawomble]

A question here - how does porn make you feel about the world, about yourself in the mirror. About your partner if you have discovered it or about men generally? I never see threads about this, about how it makes women feel without them being shouted down as prudish.
Porn was something I found in my brother’s drawer when I was borrowing his socks at age 5. It was a magazine and I took a marker pen and drew clothes on the women. Later boys used to share it and I remember feeling my body was inadequate, I was embarrassed! In my teens boys used to share photos of women having sex or Pamela Anderson and I felt humiliated and shamed. When I started having boyfriends - there was one who was obsessed with porn and he creeped me out. I ended up having a lot of body issues because of the women he would be fawning over. I found some disturbing porn on a boyfriends laptop once and I remember throwing up afterwards - the barely legal incest porn. He had sisters.

Porn makes me feel inadequate and unsafe - it makes me feel creeped out that men seem to think it’s their right to watch it.

My partner doesn’t watch it now because of my feelings - I think it gets in the way of sex and makes it feel like masturbation instead of connection.

Sore.

I’ve had partners attempt things they’ve seen online, mostly without asking me if I’d like to try it too first. When you don’t have a clue what you’re doing, things tend to hurt.

It explains everything that is wrong with men. Misogynist entitlement, dehumanising women for sexual gratification because they see it as their right. They can so they do, why wouldnt they. Makes me shudder.

Yes it's a bit chicken and egg isn't it.

I remember when the internet came to our work and before people were savvy. There was a group of blokes who shared images by email. The bloke I was friendly with would share them with me sometimes.

And they would be called porn but they aren't really. Anything with a naked woman is called porn. These images were not shared to sexually arouse. They were shared to laugh at, to feel disgust. Nothing to do with sex.

And again through the years I've seen this. Men sharing images of women who look a certain way, are doing certain things.

Get called porn but nothing to do with sex. To do with debasement of women.

Men bonding by sharing images or clips of women being put in their place essentially. Maybe the sort of woman who they couldn't get, being humiliated.

There's some kind of psychology there which is really common in men and really worrying to me.

That's the 'light hearted' banter with the boys type stuff.

Then of course mainstream het porn is mainly about some level of male sexual dominance.

I honestly think underneath many/ most men feel some level of antagonism towards women.

Maybe that's what we need to find out.

(Or maybe we can already guess a lot of it).

Doyoumind

I don't mind the idea of porn per se - as in sex based entertainment where all participants are fully consenting and enjoying it. But the reality of it is that women are exploited, it doesn't represent the kind of sex women enjoy and it promotes a kind of behaviour that is harmful to women

Hope you don’t mind me quoting but what you have written articulates so perfectly my own feelings about porn.

In my twenties I would have subscribed to the line of thinking that “it’s fine if women choose to do it ..” now I’m much wiser to how problematic that word “choice” is .

The porn industry makes me sad, disgusted and depressed.

I find it hard to use the word "porn" for what comes up if I search that. "Abuse" would be closer to what I see.

I don't feel inadequate in comparison to exploited women. I have grown two babies in my formerly small belly do it has stretch marks (it literally ripped apart at the end of the pregnancy!). I feel self conscious about that but that's more in comparison to pseudo-porn on Instagram (soft porn basically in old fashioned terms).

I feel sickened by the thought of just how many men find it engaging to watch the abuse of women (and children). I am completely turned off men by this now. Luckily I'm bi.

When I was growing up porn was very different - it tended to be Playboy magazines or if it was really racy, Penthouse. The Playboy stuff now looks almost wholesome by comparison to currently popular porn, but Penthouse always had a creepy vibe.

I don't know that it made me think anything much about myself or about men. It always was something that, while not quite uncommon was also seen as a bit of a vice.

Now, I find it worrying with regard to younger men and women. It doesn't much affect me directly as I'm not on the dating scene. What alarms me is that it sucks people in. It's natural for people to be attracted to sexual images, and we don't have much social pressure that resists that. And then porn as it exists now is deeply addictive and shapes the sexual development of young men that use it.

So I guess in a way I feel sorry for a lot of them - we've failed to give them any real mental or emotional tools to resist it in the first place, and so they fall prey to one of the most insistent biological drives. And it screws them up and screws up their ability to form relationships.

It doesn't affect how I think of myself. I worry about it's ubiquity for my daughters though.

As a mother, it terrifies me what kids are exposed to. I really can't abide people who use porn.

Mabel agree.

The in utopia argument is pointless.

In the here and now it's just awful.

As to the OP- why do so many women defend it. Probably a mix of reasons.

In the end though I'm sure none of us are ethical 100% of the time. So that's s thing. I like it so will gloss over/ look away from the issues.

The problem I have with that argument is there's no distance. I don't really know where my clothes were made. It would be hard to find out. And then to find out the conditions etc.

But if there is abuse in the porn you are consuming then you are watching it happen. Like going to a sweatshop, seeing what's going on, and buying a t-shirt there and then. That sort of thing.

Also it's ubiquitous. We're the only oppressed group that I can think of that forms- wants to form- households, intimate relationships, have children with the dominant group. That are so intertwined. And so if 'all the men do it' and you want to date a man, find a partner. What are you to do? Be fine with it obviously, or turn a blind eye.

The thing I find interesting is how the acceptance of this sort of thing has changed so fast.

When I was young. It was all quite secretive. Hidden. Hedge porn was s thing :D it was pretty mild stuff (although there were some famous films that would get talked about).

Going to a strip club- there were hardly any.

Paying for sex was sad and grim and not a thing a man would admit to.

Now porn is not just acceptable for men but almost compulsory. All men use porn! If they say they don't they're lying! And the bizarre suggestion that men can't masturbate without it.

Strip clubs etc esp on hols 'with the boys' - normal. Fine. Nothing to get worked up about.

Private dance etc. Becoming more ok. In here about 50/50 now saying it would bother them. That's s big change quite quickly.

Paying for sex. Before he met you? None of your business. (That's still a minority view but didn't used to be here).

So it's changing fast. Why? How?

Certainly sex work is work etc has been pushed hard for years. It's empowering etc etc.

On here it's really clear that every time porn is mentioned a fair amount of posters who only ever post on porn threads to tell women to get over it etc.. why does that happen? Who are they and why is it so important to them to do this? I'd love to know.

I feel lucky to have grown up in a world where this wasn’t a thing. Of course there was the odd friend who found her Dad’s stash of Playboy type mags, and the top shelf in the newsagents, but we all thought those men who went into the type of shop that sold more explicit stuff, with the striped plastic hanging from the door, were really creepy. I remember passing one in Soho in the early 90s and the men going in were just what you might expect, the old mac brigade.
When did it become so accepted ? I’ve only had two boyfriends, one now my DH. The first turned out to be really horrible with a terrible attitude towards women but even he didn’t use porn. Dh has never watched it. I have never watched it , there was some on in a pub I was in as a teenager, really disturbing as the landlord must have known we were under age. We were drinking lemonade ! That is the only glimpse I have ever had, and although grim it was normal sex happening in the tiny bit I saw.
I have teenage dds and my main fears around porn are what the boys they will date might have been watching. That and the worry about how normalised it is. There are always threads on here about how “all men watch porn” . A friend saw a man watching it on the train , in full view !! With kids around, women sitting near him. Just horrendous.

Hedge porn was s thing

In all seriousness the first porn I ever saw was pages hidden in a shrub.

You are right though about how quickly it's changed. I think internet access must have something to do with it. That seems to be when it started to be seen as less of a creep thing.

There was maybe always a difference between the guy who might occasionally peruse a Playboy, and the guy who went to an adult movie showing or collected porn tapes, but when you compare the latter to people who watch now, the difference is remarkable. I knew a few guys in the army who watched stuff that was seriously niche and comparable but no one approved of that, even the Playboy readers.

It never made me feel inadequate. It contributed to my feeling of being prey though, with no right to defend myself either.

That made me think, Mayyouliveininteresting times. I realise that’s why I’ve always disliked porn. Now, of course, infinitely worse than when I was young. I could not touch a man who enjoyed watching women hurt and humiliated. But choking? How is this even legal?

It makes me feel sad, angry and helpless. Sad because humans are better than this, aren’t we? Angry because of the exploitation and degradation. Helpless because I don’t know how we turn the tide.

It definitely saddens me that in 2 seconds you can get some pretty horrible porn. It may be legal but it always seems to be about dominance over the woman firstly and then the other stuff adds in humiliation And dehumanising to a set of holes essentially. I don’t have a problem per se with porn but it’s the type and breadth of what is available and watched by most men and our sons too . Even if they don’t continue to watch it they will have seen it. Prostitution is the same men getting to do what they like to a woman.

I don’t think on the main it leads to anything further for most men but it does create a culture where woman are not equal. I’ve really change my mind on open recently in light of all these chats like why men feel it’s fine to shout nice tits etc.

What it doesn’t do is make me feel inadequate but I’m 50 so if I was a young girl now I think I could Feel very different

I didn’t have a view on porn the first time I found a boyfriend’s stash of magazines (the stone ages I know) and I was surprised just how strong and negative my instinctive reaction was. It really was like the rug had been pulled out beneath me. I’d already been harassed/abused/raped by that point (not by him) but I’d clung onto the idea that most men were decent loving people that viewed women no differently than men. To find that even for my lovely kind sweet boyfriend women were just a weird subspecies was heart breaking. While we stayed together for a while the relationship was dead from then, and I started self harming to try to feel I really did exist, rather than the ‘fantasy’ women.
And that was just old fashioned ‘harmless’ porn. Given the violent and degrading stuff that is the ‘new normal’ it makes me think of that Greer quote: “Women have very little idea of how much men hate them.” I expect you can get a good idea from a man’s search history.

I found hedge porn part buried in the woods when I was about 9 or 10. Up until then I didn’t realise what female genitalia looked like and being confronted with a naked woman with her fanny gaping open was shocking and made me feel really gross about my own body.

Later when I was 12 I went on holiday to France. My family stopped at a service station and there was porn everywhere in the shop- displayed on tables the way a bookshop would display paperbacks. This time I was confronted with explicit photos of women being fucked in the arse and i found it disgusting and upsetting. Someone attempted to rape me when I was 8 and that, combined with the porn, made me very ashamed of my body once I hit puberty and made sex seem scary and painful.

I dont have a problem with porn in principle. But I worry about whether the people are really there consensually.. how can you ever really tell for sure?
I've got no problem with concept of it tho..
I did once date a man who struggled with porn addiction and it had had a bad effect on him and his attitude towards sex... but if I'm honest I dont think I could just blame the porn for how he was I think it was more of a symptom than an absolute cause... it would take ages to explain but I think there were loads of things which happened in his childhood that caused him to have that problem with porn.
Most other men I've dated have occasionally viewed porn but I didnt really care, it didn't effect our sex life and I didnt much think about it tbh. How people mistreate is private and up to them. I wouldn't want to be told how to masterbate so I'd never get invasive about it with anyone else.
I woukd very certainly have a problem with the use of sex workers like live cam girls or escorts... id consider that cheating as its not really masturbation its interaction with another person, there's sexual exchange there. Id not be comfortable with it in a monogamous relationship.
I have looked at porn when I was younger by myself out of curiosity and I think I did enjoy some of it but it doesnt really turn me on enough for me to ever have been that into it.. I find it invasive. I worry about the people in it if they are really okay and happy to be there.. half the time you can tell the women are faking pleasure... and then also its a bunch of strangers and I cant quite get over that.. having no emotional connection to them.
I do have a high sex drive.. I quite like written porn.. but visual porn is just not for me.
Porn doesn't make me feel any way about myself because I know its fantasy. And I know human connection and love and even lust are so complex that why would I feel alienated or jealous or lessened by girls in porn? Its not really real for most people is it?
I know I've masturbated over porn when I was younger but would I actually want to have sex with those people and be there? No absolutely not. I assume its the same for most guys tbh. I dont really buy into the idea that all men want is sex... I know there's this culture of toxic masculinity that tries to act like that's the masculine ideal... but in reality I do think genuine connection is just as important to men as it is to women
And with pornography it has nothing to do with connection, that isnt a need that pornography can fill.

@BettyFilous

I went clubbing a couple of years ago (house music retro night, age mix from early 20s to 50ish). It was very bloke-heavy to start off with but gradually evened out. It wouldn’t have bothered me in the late 80s/90s. At this event it occurred to me that a lot of the men in the room would now get off on seeing women choked/raped/spat on etc in porn and it wasn’t a good feeling.

What?!? How ON EARTH did you come up with that generalisation?

SOME men may watch that, but not nearly all?

When I was younger it made me feel insecure but that was also mixed with an outrage that this was expected of women. I'm one of those people who, if a subject makes me feel something particularly positive or negative, I will go and read about it and learn more. In this particular case I did it in an academic setting after my degrees by which time I had already read many feminist works such as Dworkin on the issue.

By the time I was done I had delved into fetishism, the porn industry, various sex clubs and prostitution. It didn't make me feel better about the world but I wrote about it, interviewed people and tried to learn more (there is a more unpleasant reason behind this single mindedness about the subject - may mention at the end). Oh boy did I learn more.

So to answer the question it doesn't make me feel bad about myself any more but it did when I was younger. These days it makes me feel angry about the greater impact it has on ALL women and girls and upset that so many women are pulled into this industry in various different ways and then exploited and this includes those entering willingly since, as most women on this board are aware, entering willingly does not always imply free choice when circumstances are taken into consideration, nor does it account for the coercion over acts experienced once one is involved in the industry. Because of this I find it colours my view of men who use it significantly. I have no respect for men who use lap dancing clubs or prostitution even less when it is seen as some form of 'corporate entertainment'. I do not want to be involved with a man who uses porn regularly - I would be unable to separate what I know of the industry from his use and I would think about it when I thought about him - as a result a meaningful relationship wouldn't be possible. I was always pretty up front about these views so it wasn't a question of banning anyone, either they were for me or not for me.

As I mentioned above there is a more unpleasant reason this got under my skin so much and in the vaguest terms is it for this reason; As a child I was abused by a much older teen - it was only one incident but obviously it has stayed with me and it really affected me. Porn was used during this incident. I won't ever forget that, I won't ever forget how it was used as a tool to demean and humiliate and how it resulted in sexual assault. Undoubtedly this contributed to my need to know more and understand and my subsequent disgust and activism on this subject once I did learn (a lot) more.

Because I seem to be allergic to posting without double posting - I want to add this. Years ago I thought porn was going in the direction it has gone but I got a lot of push back and being told I was a prude etc etc. My views were certainly unpopular among peers, while I am deeply saddened and disgusted by the direction porn has taken it, unfortunately, doesn't surprise me. I believe porn has many links to misogyny and with women's gains over the years in terms of rights I am not shocked that these have been met with even more misogynistic and brutal violent pornography - because ... of course!

Susan Faludi wrote about backlashes against women's gains in rights - I think porn/the sex industry is an integral part of a backlash against women. It puts us in our place, even if only for an hour in someone's head, if we get too mouthy at least they can imagine us being degraded or watch some other woman get it. It is a simmering undertone to modern life which lets all of us know (both men and women) where women should really stand in the hierarchy. Speaking to both users and participants has done little to disabuse me of this belief.