The Times today

[McDuffy]

I'd avoid if you don't want your blood pressure up. Fuckers

Why it’s time to join Generation Woke

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2d3590de-8674-11eb-8b38-e2425c3b9f1b?shareToken=5889cbe612725ac152b5dd5a21c9b10d

The Woke Handbook for Boomers

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c4908142-8678-11eb-8b38-e2425c3b9f1b?shareToken=60aa336ffad7823c3e12c640066e9917

Line spacing fail but still...
I am absolutely raging. I hope JK Rowling sues them. I'm going to cancel my sub after being with them since they went behind the paywall even Janice Turner can't tempt me to stay after this shitshow.

"Say no to Prince Andrew."

I mean, I'm very behind saying no to paedos but is it really woke to be anti-paedophilia?

Nope didn't get that far, them comparing JKR to Hitler was a bit off though

As this is the feminism board, thought the readers might share my focus

The bit about Prince Andrew is one line out of hundreds, so if that’s all you can pick out.....

I think the second one was written by the same people who did those awful Oatly ads.

Well, I think you can take it that the Handbook is a spoof and I found it very amusing and cleverly written.

As for the first article, I got bored but you will find that the Times will print articles on both sides and it's a good way to get some balance. If you don't understand the other side, how are you to understand your own arguments. Not cancelling my subscription, the Times has produced some really good stuff and unless you want your argument to only be produced by the Mail or Telegraph, then accepting a debate is required.

@McDuffy

Nope didn't get that far, them comparing JKR to Hitler was a bit off though As this is the feminism board, thought the readers might share my focus

It might surprise you to hear that it's possible to be a feminist and think JRK is a mediocre writer and very wrong on trans issues.

But you probably didn't spend a sizable chunk of your school life getting called "Cho Chang."

It was Matthew Parris’ #notallmen article which really raised my blood pressure this morning. Absolutely maddening.

Hmmm, both Andrew Billen and Stuart Heritage are being a bit servile there, tugging their forelocks to the new masters. But I thought Billen at least was making reasonable points about the intolerance and ‘articulate victimhood’ of wokery, up till the weak “beee niiiice” ending. And aren’t they both taking the piss a bit? Even with the conciliatory, “don’t hurt me” conclusions?

I hope I haven’t outed them!

And isn’t the brilliant Janice Turner a Sunday Times writer? The Sunday Times used to be separate from the daily Times back in the day — a much better paper.

Just wondering whether to cancel my subscription; I am keen to support Janice Turner who is also in today's Times doing a good job of breaking down the census 'what is your sex' question, and the FPFW action.

^^Many transgender people are very unhappy because others claim a real difference between the sex you are assigned at birth and the gender you later assign yourself. Yet the science remains unproved. Can men have periods? What does that mean for biology if they can?

WTAF

@Hibari can you explain more why JKR is responsible for people calling you Cho Chang? What should she have done differently?
I get that your fellow students' behaviour was offensive and racist, obviously.

But I understand your irritation, McDuffy. Some readers may believe feminists invent “stories of how men have gender realignment surgery to better assault women in toilets”. Trans activists spread enough disinformation already without adding to it.

It’s difficult to mock wokery while trying to avoid the standard frothing-at-the-mouth response from the woke.

Oh how is jkr wrong on trans issues?

I haven’t dared click. Is it in section 2?

Magazine section toffee

Ah - different team working on it I suppose. Not serious journalists then - feature bods I guess.

"Why it’s time to join Generation Woke" is an interesting read but Andrew Billen misses the point in a number of places: "Can men have periods? What does that mean for biology if they can?", "the response of a “young person” who wrote ... “You would,” he went on, “rather be right than be compassionate.” That got to me. As Mohan did. As my daughter does, regularly."

He's written a long piece having at its heart his fear of his daugher falling out with him.

I understand that "The Woke Handbook for Boomers" is supposed to be fun but lazy libel isn't the way to do it: "JK Rowling ... siding against trans people". It's goady shit. I note that this author, Stuart Heritage, "has written for the Guardian since 2009".

It’s basically “we know our children are talking shite but we love them and we don’t want them to hate us and maybe we are missing something and please god let this be over soon”

He's written a long piece having at its heart his fear of his daugher falling out with him

Didn't Jonathan Ross backtrack on his support for GLinner and gender critical feminists for the same reason? The Twitler Youth i think they call them.

Jonathan Ross is exactly who I had in mind.

Have a look at this from the comments under the article:

So, Andrew, when faced with a slightly difficult conversation with a teenager, you didn’t try very hard to explain WHY JK Rowling wants to prevent the removal of any meaning from the word “woman”, did you? This will actually have an impact on your daughter’s future, don’t throw it under the bus so you can congratulate yourself that you “get it”. She’s worth more than that.

I thought there were some interesting trains of thought in the Billen piece that might lead a reader to reach the opposite conclusion to him. It's the last paragraph that is most frustrating. The way women are treated really isn't important is it? He's writing this against the backdrop of an outpouring of anxiety from women about their safety and the threat of male violence and his sympathy is reserved for others. It's casual misogyny- refusing to see what's right in front of you.

Exactly! I came out with some absolute bollocks in my teenage and early 20s but I don’t remember all the adults getting together to ‘validate’ my utter bollocks

Now we live in a world where adults seem to be taking their lead from people barely old enough to legally drink

‘Cho Chang’ is a pretty crass bit of naming, to be honest. Do you think that’s coloured your view of JKR’s stance on unrelated issues, Hibari? It can be hard to disentangle one’s thoughts on these things.

It might surprise you to hear that it's possible to be a feminist and think JRK is a mediocre writer and very wrong on trans issues.

Does make you wonder how many more millions she’d have made if she’d been better at writing, doesn’t it?

I understand that "The Woke Handbook for Boomers" is supposed to be fun but lazy libel isn't the way to do it: "JK Rowling ... siding against trans people". It's goady shit. I note that this author, Stuart Heritage, "has written for the Guardian since 2009".

Stuart Heritage can be very funny but is a lazy writer at heart. Have seen lots of his work that takes the easy route to a cheap laugh but isn't accurate and relies on cliche. I thought he wrote for the Guardian but as a freelancer of late. Interesting if the Times are paying for this kind of thing now.