Pronouns help please

[Springchickpea]

I know this has been done to death, but I’ve just read a work email and seen that our director has put his pronouns on his email signature. We also have some new EDI training coming up, and we take a lot of advice from ‘inclusive employers’. I fear we are about to be asked to do pronouns and I want to be prepared.

I want to approach from the angle that highlighting minorities groups’ differences are damaging and I know that there are some academic research papers that highlight this but would like some help crafting my argument please. I want to stick to why this is bad for women, why I don’t want to advertise my sex, and to stay away from the other topic.

Can anyone help please? It just feels so depressing.

Fwiw, I am a regular MNetter, came for the baby stuff, stayed for the feminism but post a lot about children and family issues and don’t necessarily want my colleagues to read.

just pop you pronouns at the end of you email - you'll be fine, and you'll be doing a nice thing.

if you don't put them, people may assume you are a bigot - not saying you are, but that may be the assumption

Come on, silly girl, don't make a fuss, be nice, be kind, why would you care, what does it matter to you

if you don't do as I tell you to who knows what might happen?

This is straight out of the coercive control handbook.

minimising the OPs wishes, dismissing her right to choose to disclose or not disclose her pronouns, appealing to her 'niceness', with the subtle implication that she's not nice if she doesn't do as you tell ask her.

Followed by a wee threat of the consequences if she doesn't comply. Lovely.

am concerned that women may be discriminated against (consciously or unconsciously) and may also suffer ‘stereotype threat’ as a direct result of drawing attention to their female status. Ultimately my biological sex, gender, whatever, has no bearing on my ability to do my job and I don’t feel the need to highlight it.

Well said

OP, I find this article useful, on the "stereotype threat" which affects women at work, and which is exacerbated by things like pronouns in sigs: hbr.org/2016/08/why-women-feel-more-stress-at-work

@ArabellaScott luckily for me I’m not especially known for being ‘nice’ - empathetic, yes, and intelligent, but probably not just a simpering ‘nice’

So, as an act of support for a vulnerable minority, just pop you pronouns at the end of you email - you'll be fine, and you'll be doing a nice thing.

In our previous encounters you haven't shown any concern for other marginalised groups, Shizuku, so I won't bang on about things like "stereotype threat", which disproportionately affects women, but why don't you even care how pronouns in email sigs affect trans people who aren't out at work? Under your "nice thing", they are forced either to lie, or to come out against their will and not at their own schedule.

tl:dr - women won't be "fine" if you do this, and neither will trans people who are not out at their workplace.

Good for you, Springchickpea. I'm increasingly finding 'nice' in these sort of situations is used in a manner that is manipulative and disingenuous and far from 'nice', itself.

I am concerned that women may be discriminated against (consciously or unconsciously) and may also suffer ‘stereotype threat’ as a direct result of drawing attention to their female status. Ultimately my biological sex, gender, whatever, has no bearing on my ability to do my job and I don’t feel the need to highlight it.

Totally agree with Ereshkigalangcleg that this is perfect. You've already nailed it, OP.

Shizuku are you Redtrees with a name change? When I posted about protesting pronouns at my work redtrees posited that it didn't really matter as I'd be losing my job for being a bigot
Op it really grates on me seeing pronouns in signatures and SM bios. The worst I've noticed at the moment is people putting them in their actual username on LinkedIn. So odd. And I wouldn't employ them. People don't put the rest of the protected characteristics in their name/bio/signature so why signal to this one? Should I add my age, sex, race, maternity status, sexual orientation (side eye to CQC), whether I have a disability, etc?

Thanks, @Springchickpea . This is going a bit off the topic, but aren't academic qualifications a bit different? I mean, if they indicate a level of expertise relevant to your role, then others might treat your input differently. But I guess if you are talking about simply the level of respect you are given, then I agree it's wrong that someone with a PhD is treated more favourably than someone with a few GCSEs.

Protected characteristics are ... protected. It is optional to share them in workplace surveys for equality monitoring. Wtf should it be compulsory to put them in an email signature? No ta.

So, as an act of support for a vulnerable minority, just pop you pronouns at the end of you email - you'll be fine, and you'll be doing a nice thing. Blimey. All that's missing is the dangerous and disingenuous lie "it will cost you nothing" to complete the hat trick of coercion.

It just feels so depressing. Probably because it is depressing. Springchickpea, if you don't wish to provide pronouns then you need not do so. Since it's against the GDPR that's all you need; good luck to you.

This is happening at my work plus we have some gender diversity workshops we're supposed to be going to. It's so shit.

I've read a lot on here about the subject , I feel very clear in my own views, and have decided to completely ignore what is happening at work (I won't be attending a workshop). I need my job and I'm just going to let the rest of them get on with it. I watched MKs video on this and her advice was just not to use pronouns, even if asked in a meeting, and you very rarely get challenged - and if you do just say 'I don't care what you call me' . Since watching that I've felt a lot calmer as I can stick to my own principles without getting into a battle at my (Stonewallchampion) workplace. Luckily my line manager feels the same as me.

This is gradually appearing in my workplace. I cannot for the life of me understand how non trans people effectively outing trans people is at all helpful. And we already know that stereotype threat affects women.

I've applied for full time home working . Work to live and all that. Not interested in joining the workplace culture.

There was a brilliant meme posted about why pronouns are a bad idea posted the other day. I wish I’d saved it.

It was basically that using pronouns just opens the door to all the “let TW into women’s sport/refuges/prisons/take women’s places on committees” demands to match through

We were kind and look where it got us - enforced pronouns can get in the sea

@DadDadDad well, previously in my career, yes, my PhD has been a marker that I am suitably qualified to work in a particular area. But I’ve changed sectors now and initially I didn’t use it because it’s not super relevant to the task at hand and I didn’t have any sector specific knowledge. It was ok, people were nice enough, but I popped it onto an email where I wanted some clout and suddenly many colleagues were much more interested in me, my background, and more receptive to my ideas. It was basically a short cut to respect. I wish it hadn’t been that way but it was striking.

I am actually uncomfortable putting my pronouns on an e mail. My sexuality/ gender identification is my choice to reveal and I choose not to. Other people can do what they like but I will not be forced to do it.

minimising the OPs wishes, dismissing her right to choose to disclose or not disclose her pronouns, appealing to her 'niceness', with the subtle implication that she's not nice if she doesn't do as you tell ask her.

Followed by a wee threat of the consequences if she doesn't comply. Lovely.

Yes - funny how demand for care and compassion goes one way.

@ArcheryAnnie thank you

Thank you for this thread OP - this issue has just raised it's head in my workplace this week and I've felt completely dejected at my colleagues' seeming willingness to start doing it as they view it as being 'kind'.

One colleague took it upon herself - without asking anyone else - to contact the company-wide HR suggesting that it be implemented all across the company as she and 'all of us' (in our dept.) were 'really happy to do so'. The advice here has given me some excellent suggestions if things progress that far.

@mejon that’s the thing. I don’t know when to play my hand, but I think it has to be about the negative effects on women, and I’ll leave the other issue be. I am sorry you are dealing with this.

I’m actually beginning to find pronouns on email signatures a little triggering. Every time I see them it’s a reminder that people don’t give a crap about women (consciously or unconsciously) and that I’m either going to have to lie, or be avoidant.

I'm seeing it creeping in at my workplace (a university). Some departments seeks to have adopted it wholesale. I'm dreading what might be coming so I'm reading this with great interest.

Good luck with this OP. I would not be at all happy.

@Springchickpea - thank you . When I saw that my boss had put hers on her signature this week, my heart sank. There's lots of good suggestions on the pronouns thread linked to above too which I've bookmarked now in case I end up needing it. Good luck!