Police officer attacks woman and keeps job

[Happinessisawarmcervix]

No words.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/drunken-duty-police-officer-25-23759044

This. My immediate thoughts on the whole 'plain clothes officers in bars to protect women' idea was that there was another potential predator to navigate on a night out.

Absolutely this.

@Sundances

It's obviously not a few bad apples but a massive cultural problem within the police, and I don't think any awareness course that exists could fix it. You mention 5 - there are 32,000 police officers in the met. 113,000 in England. Who needs the Daily Mail - there's better headline fodder on MN

That’s ridiculous- you claim there are just 5?! Exactly, who needs false headlines.

There are thousands of women telling their stories on Twitter alone, of being ignored or not reporting things. The heroic thin blue line trope is really not appropriate at the moment.

I have a complaint with a force at the moment that has just been reviewed and upheld by the PCC, evidence was ‘lost’ and outright lies by those that the crime was reported to.

I come from a big police family so am hardly prone to needless bashing them.

The problem with a lot of police is they are unable to take the slightest criticism and are hyper defensive. It’s very them and us and that’s unhealthy and toxic.

@aweegc

So she wasn't taken seriously until CCTV footage came to light? That means they're literally saying that the voice of a woman means nothing. What would have happened without the CCTV? Nothing. And there would have been more incidents too, more women brutally attacked going about their daily life. Likely with increasing brutality.

And then after she/her family pushed her case, he gets a fucking curfew and £500 fine?! I bet she would be happy for the result of her attack to be a 3 month curfew (in covid times) and £500. Job done.

I thought policemen were supposed to be held to higher standards than regular people. Which would suggest if he'd not been an officer, he'd have got an ever lower sentence!!

Women's lives are simply seen as a cheap price to pay for the right of men to live theirs: collateral damage indeed.

It was the women’s justice centre who pushed the CPS after they refused to put the case forward. I agree with the poster that said we also need to focus on the CPS and the judges.

There is no psychological assessment in existence that can predict who will murder, who will abuse their power, who will hurt women. Wouldn't that be a fine thing? Then these people could be arrested before they do any of these things. Like Minority Report.

The officer will lose his job, by the way. The force is not allowed to comment until after the criminal and disciplinary investigations are complete.
By that time, the headline is reported, the public have formed an opinion and are suitably outraged by something that isn't accurate. Case in point, the title of this thread. Then it's used as an example to 'prove' how the police force is full of convicted criminals, because there won't be a further article after he's sacked. And that's all it takes to foster attitudes of mistrust in the police.
The police are not a hive mind. They are ordinary people. Parents, women, men, BME, white, gay, straight, religious, atheist, wealthy and not.
They are not heroes, though some have done heroic things. Nor are they all villains, though some have done awful things.
They are ordinary people who stay late because a child has gone missing, so they miss putting their own child to bed. They are kicked, punched, spat on and sworn at. They see the worst things that people do. The bloom rubs off after a bit. I do not believe that the majority of officers are not appalled by the actions of these colleagues. Some officers behaviour is truly disgusting and there is no excuse for that. Those officers should be held to account.The majority though, are ordinary people who do the best they can. There are no good people and bad people. All people do bad things. All people have redeeming qualities.

I do agree that the sentence is shocking. But magistrates is the right place to hear a summary only offence. The maximum sentence is 6 months imprisonment. What he did was so outrageous that I don't understand why he's not been given that.

I disagree, I know and am related to a lot of police and I do think there can be a hive mind. You only have to go on social media to see that, all the rather sickening thin blue line memes and everyday hero self congratulating.

If anyone is in the police, they know what goes on too and a lot of incredible, decent officers try to speak out and can’t, they give up or leave.

They don’t see worse than other emergency services and I don’t believe that sometimes they don’t contribute to escalating volatile ones.

A lot seem to think the public are stupid and worryingly many don’t even know much about the finer points of law- even Cressida Dick proved that by telling everyone that the Clapham Common protests were illegal. To then use the excuse of covid which has been shown to be very low risk outside and gave no spike after the last protests was inexcusable.

I have seen protesting women be mocked, described as unwashed benefit claimants and professional trouble makers, by Twitter anonymous police accounts. I have seen official police Twitter accounts ‘liking’ offensive comments about the women protestors.

Lots of us get abuse as part of our jobs, violence is endemic in the nhs for example (my co worker was kicked by a pt and lost her baby) and I would never defend bad practice in the nhs or jump to mindlessly defend my colleagues if something goes wrong.

The best police are the ones who hold their hands up and agree that there is a problem. They are intelligent and don’t have an issue with accepting that.

Apologies if I sound angry, I am, I am not going to continue blindly defending the police anymore.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jan/18/fewer-than-one-in-10-police-officers-fired-after-gross-misconduct-finding

"The best police are the ones who hold their hands up and agree that there is a problem. They are intelligent and don’t have an issue with accepting that."
I agree with this. And I think the majority are like this. Like I said, ordinary people trying to do their best. Not heroes, not villains.
I also don't think it's right or feasible to blindly support anyone and I completely agree that the police service has to be accountable to the public it serves.

I don't really accept that Twitter is a true
reflection of real life. Most people away from Twitter are decent folk. They'd have to be, otherwise you'd have to believe that everyone is walking around constantly outraged.

But the OP stated that this officer is keeping his job, based on what was reported in the press. His misconduct investigation might not have even began yet, so this was an inaccurate assumption to make. He should lose his job, I don't think many would disagree with that.

I have found a way to read the Mail online, which puts all the 'sleb stuff in a column on the right, so you can quickly scroll down the rest and find stuff the main papers don't have, just the headlines, but today's has some stuff relevant to this thread that is worth clicking and opening, but truly depressing. As is the fact that the big boys papers don't pick it up.

I live in met area.

They have an appalling record across s massive range of things.

Corruption, cover ups, lying about people they've killed. Warboys Reid. Sapphire unit. The undercover stuff in the environmental groups.

I have no doubt that they are institutionally mysoginist and racist. At the least.

These are my own views based on living in met area for more than 45 years.

There was a refreshingly undefensive ex-police chief (from somewhere in the Midlands, I think Nottingham) on Women's Hour, last week.
She said that many male officers were of the opinion that starting a sexual relationship with a vulnerable victim they had come into contact with at work (e.g. DV / DA survivor, addict, prostitute) was a 'perk of the job.' she said it was very hard to change the culture, eventually it was put in the anti-corruption guidance. She said it was very hard to change the culture.

'@NiceGerbil You are right, but there are many rotten forces and many rotten systems.
The statistical evidence has been known for three years, proving that we are paying prison psychiatrists to ensure criminals continue to offend. Those who have been through comprehensive treatment and rehabilitation are 25% more, stress more, likely to re-offend than those who have not.
(Just like the 'rehabilitated' terrorist who carried out the London Bridge attack)
The thing they learn, from the 'rehabilitation', is how to say the right thing to get let out early.
(Again, the London Bridge man was so well trained he was being brought to a conference as the prize exhibit, expected to reliably recite how 'reformed' he was, now the nice man had told him the error of his ways. That same nice man was one of his first intended targets. But if he had been a 'reformed' rapist/murderer of women, the nice psychiatrists and course organisers wouldn't be at risk themselves)
I posted above a way to view today's Mail in a 'sanitised' way. I don't have the energy to sum up the cases in there today, but the 'how contracts with psychiatrists make violent rapists 25% more likely to do it again' item was one of them. It seems stuffed with things you might think worth mention, so soon after Sarah, yet the Times and Telegraph don't report, and the men in power will presumably read one of those. They wouldn't even read Guardian would they?

I found this report beyond belief. Is the judicial system so contemptuous of women that, yet again, it is more concerned with mitigating the effect on the male perpetrator of just sentencing, than giving justice to the woman victim of a serious, terrifying assault?
Was it last week a woman was sexually assaulted, but not given a prison sentence “because he might lose his job”?
Here, it’s the fact that community service would be difficult for him as he would be “with criminals”. He IS a criminal. And a violent, misogynistic thug who abuses his police training to assault innocent women. THAT IS an aggravating feature in sentencing. He needs a prison sentence.
I am pleased to read from someone posted above, that he WILL lose his job as the newspaper report implied the opposite, but hell that is a low bar. Someone like this is dangerous.

Was it last week a woman was sexually assaulted, but not given a prison sentence “because he might lose his job”?

Yes, he was some sort of delivery guy, I think. Just who you want knocking on doors...

This one. And the Mirror humanises him as “dad”

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/dad-who-attacked-woman-walking-23694175

The sentence from the court is a disgrace.

However I’m sure he will lose his job and I hope his victim takes some comfort in that. Awful that she had to fight to get him prosecuted.

Local Councillor has written to the Attorney General asking for a sentence review though. Good on him. www.theoldhamtimes.co.uk/news/19163922.oldham-councillor-writes-attorney-general-attacker-spared-jail/

Well done Cllr. Sykes.

The 'dad' who attached a woman while out walking is a very sad story as well (above).

It says "His lawyer Saul Comish said in mitigation: ''This offence was quite opportunistic."

I wonder what that means, does he mean he didn't plan it. It just kind of happened because the woman was outside and alone so he took the opportunity to attack her?

The article also says "This incident was entirely out of character. He has a low risk of re-offending.'' I really wonder how they know this.

I also wondered why the attack being opportunistic was a defence point

Oh well he only did it because he could. Yay?

NiceGerbil exactly if that woman had not been there...

I think it is a very weak non-defense and would also make me question how we could know it was out of character or unlikely to happen again.

It does sort of hint that well. If only she hadn't been there. Or any other woman. Then there would have been no problem...

@MissBarbary

Well done Cllr. Sykes.

Taking a tip from another thread, I think I will email him and thank him.

I agree that what he did was appalling and the sentence was pathetic, but your thread title is misleading. He has not kept his job. Are you hoping to whip up more hatred for the police, because I don't think that particularly helps anyone?

Can I ask (google isn’t helping) but is there a way (website/search term/FOI) of collating how many judges are handing out unduly light sentences? Or comparing MVAW sentencing to male on male/robbery?

I mean there are sentencing guidelines/previous cases - are they all lighter for males attacking females or are individual judges deciding to use their power to hand out lower sentences?

And, as fewer cases are even making it to court - who’s deciding at CPS/PPS? And are they following some sort of guidelines too or are individuals taking it on themselves to not progress cases?

The PPS rep who told me they weren’t going ahead gave two reasons both of which were contradicted by evidence and one of which was direct victim blaming - who is overseeing their work?

It all seems so dependent on individuals being competent and willing - surely there is over sight of judges/CPS/PPS? It can’t be left up to traumatised victims or cash/time poor charities to check these people are doing their jobs?

I don’t consider the police to be ‘safe’ or to even care how they investigate sexual assault and that’s from my personal experience before reporting assault (nights out off duty officers joking about assault - including committing it) and post reporting (half a year before visiting accused of serious repeated rape so he can purge any evidence meantime, but happy to pop round right away for granny in garden post covid before her cuppa gets tepid)

Police, CPS/PPS, judges - what public information can be gleaned as to who is/how many are doing their job, who is/how many are making mistakes, who is/how many are putting cases forward and who is/how many are handing out lighter sentences?

They are all linked to the state - so there must be figures somewhere and surely to god some accountability?

Is the outlawing of misogyny why the govt is so keen on limiting JR right now? Can they foresee a tsunami of cases because they know they aren’t doing their jobs - or worse still that there is a deliberateness to the seeming incompetence?

'. Are you hoping to whip up more hatred for the police, because I don't think that particularly helps anyone?'

I keep seeing this sentiment.

I find it strange.

The police have done enough over the years (where I live anyway) for me to form a pretty negative picture by myself.. Experience as well. Felt that way for 2 or 3 decades.

Criticising the police and linking things together to paint a picture makes some people really uncomfortable.

I find that very interesting.