Who is grateful...

[toolatetofixate]

...that they were allowed to grow up as a tomboy without question?

In another current thread I posted this:

When I was growing up I cut my hair short, wore boys clothes and insisted people call me "John Boy" (my family watched The Waltons on Sundays and this name struck me as the epitome of "boyness" which I desired).

I was the quintessential tomboy as a child: very short hair, denim shorts and grubby knees, a catapult in my back pocket, and an aversion to all things pink and girly.

I wonder what could have happened to me had I been born in the current climate? Or had my parents pandered to me rather than just letting me get on with it. I was free as a child to dress as I liked and do what I liked. That seems less and less likely to happen now as, with every passing day, the TRA narrative is being pushed further and further into the mainstream.

Perhaps, if I was born later and with more susceptible parents I'd be telling a different story now, but I thank God that I'm not now going through a painful de-transition process. Instead I'm happily married and expecting my first child.

I naturally grew out of my tomboy phase in my teens. I still have some typically "masculine" tendencies if one wanted to put a label on them. I don't paint my nails or style my hair, I don't wear makeup, I never wear heels, I don't have an interest in home decor. But I don't concern myself with these things and what bearing they have on my womanhood (they have no bearing). I also wear dresses and tights exclusively, get gooey-eyed around children and babies, collect perfumes and candles, shave my legs and get my eyebrows waxed... It's all irrelevant.

Some days I honestly feel like I dodged a bullet when I read what's happening to society today.

Yes me OP. I very clearly remember having a conversation with my DM when I was 4 or 5 years old. I told her I was desperate to be a boy.

The reply was 'oh dear, well you're not a boy so you'd better start getting used to it. Also you can have babies when you grow up and boys can't do that.'

I'm glad I had my DM as a mother.

@SapphosRock

Yes me OP. I very clearly remember having a conversation with my DM when I was 4 or 5 years old. I told her I was desperate to be a boy.

The reply was 'oh dear, well you're not a boy so you'd better start getting used to it. Also you can have babies when you grow up and boys can't do that.'

I'm glad I had my DM as a mother.

That's lovely to hear. My own parents let me do as I pleased but they didn't indulge my insistence on being called John Boy (Thank Christ! How embarrassing!)

I look back on my childhood very fondly. There's a push nowadays against the word "tomboy" but I wore that badge proudly as a child.

Me me! I wore brown dungarees with an orange jumper and had a bowl haircut. Very annoyed when there were two options of something and I had to have the pink one so my brother could have the blue one (or else imagine the horror!)

Really sad for girls today being pushed into girly stereotypes and sexualised images or having to avoid them by finding a new label. I know several pre-teens who declare themselves non-binary due to this.

I was a super girly girl until around 7 then a full on tomboy till my mid teens. Ripped jeans when it wasn't fashionable and a ponytail.
My own perspective on it is not just that I was a tomboy, but reversing that label once I'd hit puberty was incredibly difficult. I was known for not being pretty or girly at high school and any venturing into such territory was met with hostile bullying from both girls and boys.
"Why bother wearing makeup when you're so ugly?"
That kind of thing.
It took going to a different college to all my peers for me to break out of it, and then I overcompensated by going full on Barbie.

I look at kids declaring that their identity is such and such and do worry they have no reverse exit if they change their mind.

*Pink phase was massively the result of teen misogyny and not meeting conventional beauty standards.

My sister. She is the middle one of three girls, she had the toys she wanted Transformers - (but only the baddies) alongside her Tiny Tears (there is a sweet story that having never really been in to dolls one Christmas she asked for this, after Mum had finished all the shopping she counted what she had left and it was just enough to buy the doll, the doll was very much loved and treasured) She did swimming (and had the physique of one) but also did ballet. She was pretty much allowed to wear what she wanted - there is one horror story of being forced to wear a dress to a party and that is re-hashed all the time, but that was actually a turning point for Mum as she just realised that there was no point in making her wear something she didn't want to. She probably didn't then wear a dress until she got married. She has a maths degree as well.

Me.

I've just lost a massive post about how I had all the markers for someone who would be referred for transition today. My distress back then was real and genuine. But it wasn't lifelong. Life has proved that it was something that could be solved through far less drastic means than irreversible surgery with all its risks.

I am.

I was pissed off girls couldn't wear trousers at school.

I was always up a tree or looking for bugs. Didn't do dresses or skirts realky not unless I really had to dress up and only if they had been caught fir me I didn't actively choose them.

I did try to conform, sometimes but it wasn't me..not really.

I wanted the remote control cars , hand held games and transformers my brothers got. But I was brought up to be polite and say thank you for the dolls etc . My parents would not have indulged me being so paranoid as to assume it was a personal attack or an intention of anything when I was given such presents.

There's a difference between bad/useless/thoughtless gifts being given on purpose and people just being kind. There was definitely , back then no intention beyond being thoughtful and kind and so I was polite aks said thank you..nothing else would have been allowed.

I remember really wanting to do judo like.my brother but I wasn't allowed.

I guess it helped in someway I was a very late developer. Although I was behind my peers so was a bit if a double edged sword. But besides an incident when I was 14/15, was probably a bit more oblivious to everything that comes with growing up as a result.

I did things cos I thought I had to rather than wanting to so much felt "wrong"

But tbh being able to identify the unfairness and the double standards did me a favour really. Being able to question things and construct am argument/point is a life skill and there's no way I'd have trusted the adults around me ever if they had tried to convince me of anything.

Same here. I spent at least two years dressing as a boy and going by a boys name. I dread to think what would have happened if it had been now.

Growing up in the 1970's as I did, it seems that adults were actually very good at watchful waiting..my cousin was not keen on being a girl and spent several years with a boys name and dressing in an androgynous way. Pictures of me show a scruffy, short haired kid in practical clothes. I was frequently mistaken for a boy.
As far as I can tell, looking back, no one seemed remotely bothered.
After a few years, the boy name was gradually less favoured. My cousin is a very private person, but almost certainly a lesbian. I grew up and am less boyish, but still don't really do feminine clothing.
I'm glad that none of this was treated as anything else than perfectly normal.

Pictures of me show a scruffy, short haired kid in practical clothes. I was frequently mistaken for a boy
As far as I can tell, looking back, no one seemed remotely bothered

I was an 80s child. Handing down clothes was quite common. Being a girl I don't know if it would have worked the other way round. I think my parents bought stuff with the intention of handing down to my brother ( suited me fine no pink ) , but I'd have got a smack kicking off about a coat or a pair of wellies given to us after my cousin or a family friend grew out of it, or I demanded something that would be useless to anyone else after. There simply wasn't the money to indulge it.

It's good to hear all these stories.

I do agree that it seems like we're going backwards now. I grew up in the 80s/90s and there seemed to be more girls like this than there are now (I work in a school and just don't see it so much these days). Girls grow up too fast these days.

For all their shouting about being progressive, I do think movements like TRA are dragging us backwards.

I think that's probably a large part of it. I didn't have very many clothes either. It wasn't unusual to have one pair of jeans, a few t-shirts and jumpers, maybe one 'best' outfit and a party dress/top. Most of mine were home made to boot.

I think that's probably a large part of it. I didn't have very many clothes either. It wasn't unusual to have one pair of jeans, a few t-shirts and jumpers, maybe one 'best' outfit and a party dress/top. Most of mine were home made to boot

So much disposable fashion now. You can pander to all tastes all the time. He'll you can pick it up at your weekly shop. Where we were told " no we can't afford it" and parents would not engage with anything that was poor quality. It had to last . There were siblings or cousins or Mr and Mrs Watson at number 6 who were expecting a baby.

Kids now are told no far less.that has to contribute sometimes to the more extreme reactions when they are told no.

I was born mid 80s and grew up in the 90s, things were way less gendered then.
Lots of my clothes were hand me downs.
Little girls didnt tend to wear mini versions of women's clothes like they do now.
I hated dresses, looking back, how I preferred to dress was probably down to sensory issues and practicality for the life I lived rather than a gender thing.
Toys were just toys, there was no pink lego, we spent a lot of time role playing with baby dolls, a toy kitchen, making things, collecting things, trying to kill each other.
We were left to our own devices for a lot of the time, way more than would be normal now.
I cut my hair short once because my mum had short hair and people did think I was a boy.
I think things are too gendered now and there's too much helicopter parenting and pathologising of normal behaviors that a lot of parents in the early 90s wouldn't even have noticed.

Me too. I wanted a penis so I could pee standing up,wanted to grow up to be a man cos they did the interesting stuff, identified with and acted out make characters from films. I grew up to eventually be a lesbian who loves her body and sometimes expresses very feminine, sometimes very masculine and everything in between.

I even described myself as having a male brain in a female body between about 10 and 25. I just did not fit.

But I knew I was female. I did not like the label ' tomboy' because I was not a boy. I was a girl, I was struggling to fit in as a girl, and I resented having ' girl' taken away from me.

I was not happy. I had increasing problems with depression.

Had there been social media telling that my brain was genuinely male and there was a way out of my misery, a way to fit in, I am not sure I would have survived intact, to become a mother and a woman who is comfortable in her geeky quirkiness.

@JellySlice

I even described myself as having a male brain in a female body between about 10 and 25. I just did not fit.

But I knew I was female. I did not like the label ' tomboy' because I was not a boy. I was a girl, I was struggling to fit in as a girl, and I resented having ' girl' taken away from me.

I was not happy. I had increasing problems with depression.

Had there been social media telling that my brain was genuinely male and there was a way out of my misery, a way to fit in, I am not sure I would have survived intact, to become a mother and a woman who is comfortable in her geeky quirkiness.

This is an excellent point about social media.

We got our first family computer when I was 14/15. The landscape of the Internet then was nothing like it is now. I had no phone. There was no social media. Everything was a lot slower.

There is a frightening speed now with which young boys and girls (girls predominantly) can get sucked into truly dangerous groups. TRAs would say these groups are supportive. I've been on many out of interest and I seriously disagree.

The internet is now all-consuming and all-corrupting. I'm glad I didn't have access in my formative years.

@toolatetofixate

It's good to hear all these stories.

I do agree that it seems like we're going backwards now. I grew up in the 80s/90s and there seemed to be more girls like this than there are now (I work in a school and just don't see it so much these days). Girls grow up too fast these days.

For all their shouting about being progressive, I do think movements like TRA are dragging us backwards.

Yes, we're going backwards, though in many respects it's worse now for children, with the self-consciousness bred by social media where they're encouraged to constantly think about how they're being seen, liked, unliked, commented on, and not just by schoolfriends but the whole wide world - it's like having those arseholes shouting at you from a passing car, but global and 24/7. And of course they have access to money, which we didn't, much, and that makes them a market worth cultivating young by people with something to sell.

Yes me!
I am so grateful I grew up in the 90s. Shortened my female name to the male equivalent. Went through a phase where I HATED skirts and dresses.
Liked mud and mess. Really into natural history, bugs, pond dipping, science, meccano and lego etc.

I was very bookish and often "identified" with male characters in books when they were the ones having interesting adventures. In fact I was sometimes a boy in my dreams (the nightime ones, not the day dreaming kind).

Now, I am a mix - some stereotypically masculine and some stereotypically feminine traits/interests etc. I love being female (mainly) and have a wonderful life.

I am no longer vehemently opposed to "girly" or "soppy" things on principle, like I was as a child. I think my overly passionate rejection of "girliness" was a reaction to feeling like I didn't quite fit the mold - I grew out of this before my teens and I think most kids do as they mature. I suppose on some level I thought it was all or nothing, and I perceived that boys had more fun and freedom, hence the phase of very strongly rejecting what I saw as "girly".

God only knows what would have happened if I was a child now.
Especially because as a child and teenager I felt like a bit of an outsider/misfit, and was very socially awkward. I would have loved to be told that there was some magic panacea for these feelings, and I do wonder what I would have been led to believe if I was growing up now.

I didn't mind being called a tomboy, it just seemed me that there were some girls who were more 'girly' for want of a better word and also girls like me. I think I wanted short hair because it was much less hassle than long, I hated it being brushed and my Mum had a mania for it being very tightly pulled into a ponytail for school which was uncomfortable.

My best friend at school. She never shaved her legs, wore her hair in a flat top, and always wore jeans and a button up shirt when she could. She used a gender neutral version of her name that swung masculine (think Alexandra but known as Al).
She is now a grown woman with a flat top who wears button up shirts and tailored trousers in her job as a headteacher and is a butch lesbian with a lovely wife and several small fluffy dogs. I often think what a marvellous role model she is to the students in her school as a proud, happy gender non conforming woman.

Me! If I’d been born 25 years later I dread to think what would happen to me.

Looking back I was statistically likely to declare myself male - not even my parents knew either at the time but I am autistic and had been sexually abused at a young age.

I was obsessed with famous five and of course George in particular - I just felt like if she could identify as a boy then why not me?

I was actually discussing the whole gender ideology topic with my parents recently and mentioned how grateful I was that I’d been allowed to be how I was. My dad couldn’t even remember I’d had my hair short for a while! That’s how small an issue it was. I remember mum being a bit sad about it at the time, but she still cut it for me and kept it short until I grew out of wanting to be a boy.