CCTV and lighting, the government response.

[MiniTheMinx]

More street lighting and CCTV, is that what we want?

More light pollution, and more surveillance. We are already the most watched nation, and already suffering the effects of light pollution. My thinking is this, that no amount of surveillance, or light, or punishment for crimes committed is going to address the causes of male violence. It seems to me that the government believes that leaving aside the structural and cultural roots of male violence is ok, they are want to play about looking serious in protecting women.

Am I wrong, is greater surveillance and lighting going to make us safe? does the end justify the means? even if the end result is a small reduction in risk?

TheBuffster and AbsintheFriends yes that's it, teenage boys do not listen to the uncool teachers and parents when they so desperately want to be accepted by their peers. My own son has said in the past that although his friends say things he disagrees with he just feels too scared to speak up. Boys/men have the need to try and prove themselves and to fit in with other men. Presumably it comes down to the threat of violence. And yes I think we are on a losing battle when violence against women is normalised through porn and computer games.

peak2021 if only he would pack up and leave. Although I would like to see more women in top jobs I feel very angry at right wing women.

I don't think anything much will change in terms of prosecutions. Most rapes occur in women's own homes or other private spaces where the attacker is known to the woman. Using CCTV seems to imply that if we don't believe women to tell the truth we can fob them off with the idea that any random attack at night will at least be proven to have happened because "we saw it"

TheABC bloody hell, where did you read that? I agree its a joke. Its because these bastard privileged louse secretly have sympathy with these men. 10 years for breaking up a statue of a "great white man" 5 years for raping a woman. The onus on women to prove they never gave consent is greater than the man's to prove consent was given. Consent is assumed. It becomes meaningless because the legal system has made it meaningless. But apparently better lighting will fix the issue.

There is no appetite to tackle the root causes as it might inconvenience men/ make them feel bad/ or got at.

There was a good discussion along these lines on LBC with Shelagh Fogarty this afternoon.

You could hear Shelagh getting increasingly cross and frustrated at the realisation coming over her as she spoke to various callers that nothing is likely to change soon.

Frankly failing to enforce the law as it stands in rape, sexual assault, stalking, revenge porn, up skirting etc means many if not most women in public suffering serious harm including serious annoyance, inconvenience and loss of amenity.

I’d like to see a number of Ministers in the dock charged by their own Policing Bill for failing to protect us.

Not falling all over themselves about a tweet from a party that can’t even protect their own female shortlists from men.

They want to be seen to do something without actually doing anything. If they wanted to tackle this they would invest in crime prevention, detection, prosecution and victim support.

The measures proposed are bullshit.

It would only help if they used this increases CCTV and surveillance to prosecute the crimes that occur every day - harassment, assault, flashing. Until they take these crimes seriously nothing will change.

Kinsters yes definitely. But then we will get told that 'harassment' is ill defined and therefore can't be prosecuted. Isn't it the case that sexual harassment is not a criminal offence?

Everyone seen this?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56435550

Sex added to hate crime crime in England soon. And they do specify sex. Well they say sex and gender and although hate crime already has gender in it, putting it like that does highlight that they don't mean the same thing, which is good.

I'm very surprised by this move.

Indecent exposure and grabbing your bum are illegal I believe.

Although I think a man got off a sex offence by arguing it wasn't sexually motivated...

Also kerb crawling is illegal but I'm not sure what that law actually says.

I think that the things that happen to women are seen as tricky because the laws were originally written by men for men.

EG if group of men shout sexually explicit comments at a woman is that illegal? What if she's under 16, does that change things?

I once had two older boys sitting on the bus behind me whispering we're going to rape you, follow you home and rape you, and we'll know where you live. Is that illegal? Feels like it ought to be to me.

Firstly women and girls don't know what's legal and what isn't, secondly we are given a strong message to deal with it ourselves, also many know the police aren't interested...

I know a lot of posters don't like hate crime law and I understand why. When they trialled it in Nottingham though they got more reports, almost all crimes, including stuff like attempted rape. It will make women feel more confident in coming forward. If the police follow through...

I don't know if this is the case ABC is referring to but it is a man who attacked a woman in the street and seems to have avoided a custodial sentence as he was the sole earner in the family. Sent on a sex offender's course instead.
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/oldham-councillor-urges-review-after-20183218