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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Black Mothers Matter: Non profit supporting black women during pregnancy

82 replies

ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings · 16/03/2021 08:05

Hey, I've just seen this in another group and thought it would be good to share it here. It's called Black Mothers Matter and their main project atm seems to be providing free gift hampers to help black women during their pregnancies. They're looking for donations if anyone's looking for a cause to support.

www.blackmothersmatter.org

OP posts:
EchoCardioGran · 16/03/2021 22:43

Thank you for posting this OP, really appreciate you raising awareness Flowers

Bluebirdhumming · 16/03/2021 22:46

Thank you for sharing.

I feel quite strongly about this and was discussing this recently with a relative who had her first baby in the same NHS trust she works and had a horrific experience. It prompted me to share some of the traumatic details from my first labour and we both sad-laughed about our reasons why we couldn't/didn't and can't complain about how we were treated.

Bluebirdhumming · 16/03/2021 22:47

@plumpuddisnice I'm sorry you went through that

ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings · 16/03/2021 23:03

I'm sorry that you and your relative both experienced that Bluebirdhumming, and even more sorry that you couldn't even complain about it. It's an absolute disgrace 💐

OP posts:
EmbarrassingAdmissions · 16/03/2021 23:10

It prompted me to share some of the traumatic details from my first labour and we both sad-laughed about our reasons why we couldn't/didn't and can't complain about how we were treated.

Would you be able to share some of the details in the women's health consultation? iirc, you can request anonymity and from the sound of it, your experiences are something that should be told if it wouldn't re-traumatise you both. (It's more than understandable if this is a horribly intrusive suggestion and you can't bear the idea of it.)

nocoolnamesleft · 16/03/2021 23:27

Thank you. Incredibly important, looking at the mbrace numbers.

PurpleHoodie · 17/03/2021 08:35

Little bump.

Dinosauratemydaffodils · 17/03/2021 10:14

So sorry @plumpuddisnice Hope the surgery goes well when it happens Flowers

Pelvis shape is a bit of an obsession of mine thanks to dc1 managing to wedge himself in mine. Apparently only 50 percent of women have gynecoid (what's typically described as a female pelvis) pelvises. I'm one of the ones who don't. I think it's more important for women with smaller pelvises to be mobile during labour so everything opens up as much as possible, however there is a link between pelvis shape and badly positioned babies which can lead to more painful labours so a double edged sword. Then of course there is the link between pelvis shape and longer labours which can lead to more interventions (not saying all interventions are bad, my labour was traumatic because it took them 75 hours to admit defeat and intervene) but when discussing maternal inequalities, it's definitely relevant.

Gestation can also varies on race. Black babies tend to be ready earlier than white ones which I imagine can cause issues with our western view of overdue/term. Induction may be fine for a white baby at 42 weeks, less so for a black/asian one. Will see if I can find the study I read about that later.

Basically using a white woman as a standard template for western obstetrics is bad. Maternity care needs to centre the individual

plumpuddisnice · 17/03/2021 11:44

Thank you for all your kind words and well wishes for DC2.

@Dinosauratemydaffodils nice to meet someone with an equal obsession with pelvis shape Smile. I think you're right about pelvis shape and badly positioned babies and equally right about long painful labours.

I carried really well in both pregnancies until the last week or so. Both babies got in to the back to back position and rotated the long way round to get into position for child birth. Both were long labours, I'm talking 3 days. DC1 was a forceps delivery and DC2 who was significantly bigger was face presentation. I honestly believe the shape of my pelvis impacted this.

And yes totally agree that western maternal care should not be based on the tradition concept of European women.

ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings · 17/03/2021 13:18

Hello, sorry for not engaging more with my own thread yesterday. I have a heavy cold atm so my brain is a bit foggy but still wanted to post the link when I saw it.

I'm so grateful to everyone who has shared links and stories of their own experiences. I had no idea about the different pelvic shapes and I've actually been to medical school (although on fairness I didn't complete the course - ironically enough because my own unexpected pregnancy made it too difficult to continue). I'll ask my friends who are doctors how much they know about it.

I can't open the resources on my phone so will try later from my laptop, but it would be really great to download the template letters from the 5 X more campaign linked up thread and start writing to our local mps about this.

It's also important to link this conversation up to wider issues of sexual and reproductive health for black women and all women of colour. Access to contraception and abortion, sex education, fertility treatment, care during pregnancy and labour (including access to pain relief), post partum care, peri and post natal depression, breastfeeding support, and even things like bluebird mentioned of feeling able to complain when they receive substandard care. It's a huge subject and not one that I have any relevent personal experience or expertise in. But we can use this thread as a space to share resources, support existing campaigns, take whatever action we can, and listen to the voices of black women and women of colour if they want to share their stories.

OP posts:
SunsetBeetch · 17/03/2021 15:32

Hope you feel better soon OP

Flowers to previous posters. Thank you for sharing your stories.

bd67thSaysReinstateLangCleg · 17/03/2021 20:07

The BAME maternity stats are a national scandal. I genuinely don't understand why this isn't getting more attention.

The women involved are not white, and that's why they are not getting attention.

PotholeHellhole · 17/03/2021 20:09

Hi, I've been lurking on this thread.

If anyone has time and energy, I'd really appreciate it if you could add a post about the issues to this thread some time, along with the orgs to support. I really don't think a post from me regurgitating other people's points is going to do this issue justice.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4184062-Feminist-goals-and-organisations-which-are-working-towards-them

ArabellaScott · 17/03/2021 20:18

Ta for thread, bookmarking to remind self to donate later.

I believe black women face specific challenges wrt breastfeeding, too, trying to remember where I saw info on this ..

Iceskatingfan · 17/03/2021 20:28

I think this issue is getting some attention albeit not enough, but I would really like to understand the reasons behind the huge difference in stats for white and black mothers in the UK. I have seen it a few times being dismissed as simply the medical profession being racist and not taking black mother’s concerns seriously enough but I’m not sure it’s necessarily the only factor (I appreciate this is probably part of the picture). I don’t think anyone has the answer to this but I don’t understand why nobody is researching this as it should be possible to adjust the stats for factors like socio-economic status, BMI, diet, hypertension, English as a first language, late presentation of pregnancy, number of children, maternal mental health problems etc. which I’m thinking could potentially be relevant. I’d love to understand better what the issues are.

ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings · 18/03/2021 00:13

I imagine part of the reason for it not being researched more is down to racism as well tbh. And I agree that it's almost certainly multifaceted. But I don't think that you can seperate out those things you listed as being seperate from racism for the purposes of adjusting the statistics (unless I've misunderstood what you mean by that).

Obviously if a black woman dies during childbirth due to issues relating to poor mental health, lack of peri natal care, poor diet etc then that's not the same as a death due to a racist midwife actively dismissing the woman's concerns, but that doesn't mean that those things aren't all part of the big picture that is structural and systemic racism.

If worse maternity outcomes are linked to poverty and women in poverty are disproportionately likely to be black then those things need to be discussed together. Some of the problems are going to be things that can be tackled within health care settings, like ensuring women with English as an additional language have access to translation services, that they are listened to and believed by HCPs, that they aren't treated according to a default white modal of pregnancy. Some of it will be things that need to be addressed at a social and political level, like raising the socioeconomic status for black women. And some of it is going to be longer term public health campaigns around things like diet and lifestyle, making family planning services more accessible, better mental health services, better early intervention for things like hypertension, and ensuring black women have high quality care from the very start of their pregnancies.

Those things are all still part of racism though. If black women face more barriers than white women in accessing any one of those things then that's a manifestation of systemic racism. If that leads to them having worse outcomes in pregnancy then racism was still a primary driver for that. It isn't the overt kind of racism that can be fixed with diversity training and a robust complaints procedure, but its still racism.

A healthy pregnancy doesn't start
with taking a test and visiting a midwife. A healthy pregnancy starts in early childhood with girls not being subjected to fgm. It starts in school with high quality sex ed which empowers women to become mothers when they're emotionally and physically ready and reduces the risk of STIs. It's starts with protecting girls from the early childhood trauma that often leads to addiction or dangerous lifestyle choices, and ensuring they have mental health support to recover if they need it. It starts with engaging a woman's entire community, especially her mother and grandmother's, with the need for peri natal care, and with fully understanding the influence of cultural and generational attitudes to medicine on a woman's health choices. And these things are not unique to black women of course, most women of every race are primarily influenced by their culture and the beliefs of family and friends when it comes to health care. But if black women aren't being included or considered sufficiently in any one of these steps then that is fundamentally down to racism. By the time a black woman takes a test and finds out she's pregnant many of the steps down the road to worse outcomes will already have been taken a long time ago.

Sorry that turned into a mega essay!

OP posts:
HeadPain · 18/03/2021 00:46

Professor Jacqueline Dunkley-Bent is the Chief Midwifery Officer (CMO) for England. She is a black woman herself, and has been raising this issue and is reportedly leading work to reduce health inequalities. You'ok have to scroll down through her tweets, my battery is going to die. I followed her but I haven't been back on Twitter since last year.

mobile.twitter.com/TeamCMidO

She was appointed in 2019. She is actually England's first ever Chief Midwifery Officer.

www.england.nhs.uk/author/professor-jacqueline-dunkley-bent/

www.england.nhs.uk/2019/03/first-chief-midwife-appointed/

I can't really search much for reporting on what she has said about the issue as my battery is nearly dead and I can't charge it . Here's something...
www.england.nhs.uk/2020/06/nhs-boosts-support-for-pregnant-black-and-ethnic-minority-women/

www.aims.org.uk/journal/item/jacqui-dunkley-bent

Also seen this
www.nursingtimes.net/news/research-and-innovation/inaugural-head-of-midwifery-research-at-nhs-england-announced-02-02-2021/

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/oct/02/something-has-to-be-done-tackling-the-uks-black-maternal-health-problem

HeadPain · 18/03/2021 01:33

First head of midwifery research announced too, Professor Jane Sandall, with focus on this issue. She will report directly to Chief Midwifery Officer Professor Dunkley-Bent.

Inaugural head of midwifery research at NHS England announced
02 FEBRUARY, 2021 BY MEGAN FORD

A first-ever head of midwifery research has been appointed for England and one of her key focuses will be around ending racial health inequalities in maternity care.

Professor Jane Sandall, who has a clinical background in nursing, midwifery and health visiting, started in the new role at NHS England and NHS Improvement this week.

“The expertise she will bring in mobilising research and evidence will be invaluable” [said] Jacqueline Dunkley-Bent

Her appointment follows the creation of two similar new roles at NHS England and NHS Improvement in October last year focused on nursing research.

Professor Sandall is a professor of social science and women’s health at King’s College London and also works with the National Institute of Health Research (NIHR) in South London and Tommy’s National Centre for Maternity Improvement.

In her new role, NHS England and NHS improvement said Professor Sandall would be focusing on health inequalities linked with maternity outcomes for families from Black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) backgrounds.

In recent months, calls have been made for urgent action to ensure maternity care is safer for BAME women.

During the coronavirus pandemic, concerns have also been raised around the volume of pregnant women admitted to hospital in the UK with Covid-19 who are from an ethnic minority background.

Professor Sandall said she was “delighted to be starting this exciting new role”.

She will report directly to Professor Jacqueline Dunkley-Bent, the chief midwifery officer (CMO) for England.

Working as part of the CMO team, Professor Sandall said she would be able to “bring together the NHS, universities and the NIHR so that we can create national policy which improves maternity care for women and their babies”.

Meanwhile, Professor Dunkley-Bent said it was a “pleasure” to welcome Professor Sandall to the team.

The expertise she will bring in mobilising research and evidence will be invaluable,” noted Professor Dunkley-Bent.

She added: “Research is just one of the tools we will be using to improve maternity care for mums and their babies in particular the experiences of women from Black, Asian and ethnic minority families.”

Professor Lorraine Harper, associate dean for the NIHR Academy, said: “We very much look forward to working with Professor Sandall to champion midwifery research and support the research community.

“This significant new role demonstrates the importance of building research capacity within the midwifery profession.”

www.nursingtimes.net/news/research-and-innovation/inaugural-head-of-midwifery-research-at-nhs-england-announced-02-02-2021/

Last time I clicked the Guardian it had a wall and asked to register but then it went away so idk but :

"'Something has to be done': tackling the UK's Black maternal health problem
This article is more than 5 months old
As the issue is raised in parliament, two women are campaigning for change within the medical community

Tinuke Awe hadn’t been long at her midwife’s appointment when her pregnancy started spinning out of her control. Despite her body swelling uncomfortably as her baby grew, it was only at that 38-week checkup that pre-eclampsia was diagnosed. The midwife’s message was stark: go straight to the hospital, your life could be in danger.

Once there she was given a vaginal pessary to induce labour, and told to expect nothing to happen for at least 24 hours. But a few hours later she was in agony. “I kept saying ‘I’m in pain, I’m in pain’, but I was completely dismissed and fobbed off – no one looked at me,” says Awe.

Rushed into a treatment room when midwives finally discovered she was on the verge of giving birth, she found she was too exhausted to push and her son was delivered with the help of forceps. “I was just left feeling like I didn’t matter, that no one really cared about me,” she says.

Her story is shocking but not uncommon. In the UK, Black women are five times more likely to die in pregnancy or childbirth than white women, according to a 2019 report published by MBRRACE-UK. Black and minority ethnic groups are at greater risk of their baby dying in the womb or soon after birth, and at greater risk of severe long-term health problems. During the Covid-19 pandemic, 55% of pregnant women admitted to hospital with coronavirus were from BAME backgrounds.

This week the government has been put under mounting pressure to introduce targets to eradicate the disparity. At prime minister’s questions on Wednesday, the Labour leader, Keir Starmer, asked Boris Johnson to commit to an inquiry into Black maternal mortality, describing the disparity as “truly shocking”.

Friday sees the first meeting of the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists’ (RCOG) race equality taskforce, and the launch of “five steps for healthcare professionals”, devised with Fivexmore, a campaign group set up by Awe and her co-campaigner Clotilde Rebecca Abe.

“There are real people behind those statistics,” says Abe, who is also a co-chair of the St Thomas and Lambeth Maternity Voice Partnership and the creator of the social enterprise Prosperitys. “Something has to be done.”

An increasingly vocal consensus that direct action must be taken is also growing in the medical community. In July Prof Jacqueline Dunkley-Bent, England’s chief midwifery officer, explained to the parliamentary joint committee on human rights that a target had been set to provide continuity of care for 75% of BAME women. Asked if a target was needed to address mortality disparity, she said: “The short answer is absolutely, yes. One death where there is inequality because you are not on a level playing field is one death too many. "

Why does the inequality exist? According to Dr Christine Ekechi, a co-chair of RCOG’s race equality taskforce and a consultant obstetrician gynaecologist, Black women are more likely to have conditions that can put them at greater risk, including cardiac disease, diabetes and high blood pressure, but this is far from the full picture.

“The deeper question is: why are Black and Asian women more likely to have existing health conditions?” asks Ekechi. “There’s no specific gene that links all Asian people or a common gene that is found in all Black people. Many of these pre-existing conditions are non-communicable diseases which are driven by social determinants of health such as poverty, education and housing.”

Research from the US shows that when Black and Asian women do not have pre-existing medical conditions, have English as their first language and come from middle-class backgrounds, they still have worse outcomes compared with white women from a similar background, she adds. “There’s something more that’s happening there.”

A spokesperson for the Department of Health and Social Care said Dunkley-Bent was leading work to reduce health inequalities, while government-funded research at Oxford University was investigating the increased risk of women and babies of a BAME background dying.

Introducing targets would indicate that the UK is determined to consign poor maternal health outcomes for Black women to history, says Ekechi. “What we don’t want is in the next reports to see that this disparity is widening.”

Awe, an HR executive who set up the support group Mums and Tea in the wake of her own experience as well as co-founding Fivexmore, is determined to stop that happening.

“In 1991 when my mum gave birth to me she was at greater risk of dying. In 2020 when I gave birth to my daughter that risk had increased and I was five times more likely to die,” she says. “I’ll be damned if my daughter, whenever she decides to give birth, is 25 times more likely to die.”"

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/oct/02/something-has-to-be-done-tackling-the-uks-black-maternal-health-problem

There is a link on this sentence "government-funded research at Oxford University" that takes you to: www.npeu.ox.ac.uk/pru-mnhc/research-themes/theme-3

"Why are Black and ethnic minority mothers more likely to die either during pregnancy, or within the first year of giving birth, compared to white mothers born in the UK? Jenny Kurinczuk & Marian Knight (Leads), Kathryn Bunch, Sara Kenyon"

HeadPain · 18/03/2021 01:34

I found a charger

ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings · 18/03/2021 09:38

Thanks headpain that's really interesting, especially this bit:

Research from the US shows that when Black and Asian women do not have pre-existing medical conditions, have English as their first language and come from middle-class backgrounds, they still have worse outcomes compared with white women from a similar background, she adds. “There’s something more that’s happening there.”

OP posts:
MoltenLasagne · 18/03/2021 19:46

Wee bump ahead of Friday

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 18/03/2021 20:08

@ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings

Thanks headpain that's really interesting, especially this bit:

Research from the US shows that when Black and Asian women do not have pre-existing medical conditions, have English as their first language and come from middle-class backgrounds, they still have worse outcomes compared with white women from a similar background, she adds. “There’s something more that’s happening there.”

I posted something tangential to that observation on another thread but it's probably more useful if I repeat it here (apologies if you've already seen this).

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a4194191-how-can-feminism-in-the-uk-be-more-inclusive-striving-for-equality-for-all-women?msgid=105680807#105680807

I can't find a link to the online event but it was fascinating to attend a discussion that included Invisible Visits: Black middle-class women in the American healthcare system albeit it addresses a US healthcare context and socio-economic intersections that include the consequences of red-lining etc.

In telling the stories of Black women who are middle class, Invisible Visits also questions the persistent myth that discrimination only affects racial minorities who are poor. In so doing, Invisible Visits expands our understanding of how Black middle-class women are treated when they go to the doctor and why they continue to face inequities in securing proper medical care. "The book also analyzes the strategies Black women use to fight for the best treatment and the toll that these adaptations take on their health. Invisible Visits shines a light on how women perceive the persistently negative stereotypes that follow them into the exam room and makes the bold claim that simply providing more cultural competency or anti-bias training to doctors is insufficient to overcome the problem. For Americans to really address these challenges, we must first reckon with how deeply embedded discrimination is in our prized institutions, including healthcare. Invisible Visits tells the story of Black women in their own words and forces us to consider their experiences in the context of America’s fraught history of structural discrimination.

oxford.universitypressscholarship.com/view/10.1093/oso/9780190840204.001.0001/oso-9780190840204

iirc, Profs Arrianna Marie Planey and Tressie McMillan Cottom had some Twitter discussion of the book including this extract:

We laughed at the absurdity of trying to keep our [CDC] badges on during a Dr's visit.. to convey our intelligence. To show that we were Black but not poor. That we were women, but we weren't hysterical.
…we had to work hard to get the best care possible.

Additional extracts screencapped here:

twitter.com/tressiemcphd/status/1110276878412201984?s=20

Arrianna Planey elaborates on additional texts and related structural issues such as #EnvironmentalRacism as well as exploring the limited, situational protection of being educated and middleclass when Black (eg, when devoid of the subtle outward markers of clothing etc. in an ER).

twitter.com/Arrianna_Planey/status/1314651491114901505

ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings · 18/03/2021 20:35

Thanks EmbarrassingAdmissions, that looks like a really interesting read. I looked it up on amazon and unfortunately it's out of my price range for the time being, but I'm putting it on my wish list for the future.

OP posts:
DragonBlu · 18/03/2021 22:05

[quote HeadPain]Professor Jacqueline Dunkley-Bent is the Chief Midwifery Officer (CMO) for England. She is a black woman herself, and has been raising this issue and is reportedly leading work to reduce health inequalities. You'ok have to scroll down through her tweets, my battery is going to die. I followed her but I haven't been back on Twitter since last year.

mobile.twitter.com/TeamCMidO

She was appointed in 2019. She is actually England's first ever Chief Midwifery Officer.

www.england.nhs.uk/author/professor-jacqueline-dunkley-bent/

www.england.nhs.uk/2019/03/first-chief-midwife-appointed/

I can't really search much for reporting on what she has said about the issue as my battery is nearly dead and I can't charge it . Here's something...
www.england.nhs.uk/2020/06/nhs-boosts-support-for-pregnant-black-and-ethnic-minority-women/

www.aims.org.uk/journal/item/jacqui-dunkley-bent

Also seen this
www.nursingtimes.net/news/research-and-innovation/inaugural-head-of-midwifery-research-at-nhs-england-announced-02-02-2021/

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/oct/02/something-has-to-be-done-tackling-the-uks-black-maternal-health-problem[/quote]
Thanks to the OP for this thread and drawing attention to this issue and this website www.blackmothersmatter.org

Ashamed to say I don't know much of anything about this issue. I had heard about it in the USA, but not here.

The following article seems to be centred on COVID19 and pregnant BAME women, but I'll look into the wider issue, the research, measures being taken and measures that need to be taken. And things we can do to help/raise awareness. Also will look into this "NHS Long Term plan" mentioned here, but it's pretty clear it's not just an NHS issue.

"NHS boosts support for pregnant black and ethnic minority women
27 June 2020

The NHS is rolling out additional support for pregnant Black, Asian and Ethnic Minority (BAME) women, as new research shows heightened risks facing women from minority groups.

Analysis out today shows Black pregnant women are eight times more likely to be admitted to hospital with COVID-19, while Asian women are four times as likely.

Urgent action is being taken by the NHS in England to protect expectant mums, including increasing uptake of important Vitamin D and undertaking outreach in neighbourhoods and communities in their area.

Women from ethnic minority backgrounds have long been known to face additional maternity risks, with maternal mortality rates significantly higher than for white women.

But now research from Oxford University shows that 55% of the pregnant women admitted to hospital with COVID-19 are from a BAME background, even though they only make up a quarter of the births in England and Wales.

Further analysis of the research indicates that Asian women are four times more likely than white women to be admitted to hospital with COVID-19 during pregnancy, while Black women are eight times more likely.

Today, England’s most senior midwife, Jacqueline Dunkley-Bent, has written to all maternity units in the country calling on them to take four specific actions which will minimise the additional risk of COVID-19 for BAME women and their babies.

The common sense steps include:

Increasing support of at-risk pregnant women – e.g. making sure clinicians have a lower threshold to review, admit and consider multidisciplinary escalation in women from a BAME background.

Reaching out and reassuring pregnant BAME women with tailored communications.

Ensuring hospitals discuss vitamins, supplements and nutrition in pregnancy with all women. Women low in vitamin D may be more vulnerable to coronavirus so women with darker skin or those who always cover their skin when outside may be at particular risk of vitamin D insufficiency and should consider taking a daily supplement of vitamin D all year.

Ensuring all providers record on maternity information systems the ethnicity of every woman, as well as other risk factors, such as living in a deprived area (postcode), co-morbidities, BMI and aged 35 years or over, to identify those most at risk of poor outcomes.

Chief Midwifery Officer for England, Jacqueline Dunkley-Bent, said: “We know that pregnant women from a BAME background are twice as likely to be admitted to hospital with Covid-19 compared to white women, which is why we’re helping midwives take sensible extra steps to protect mum and baby.

“While Public Health England is continuing to assess and advise on the impact of the COVID-19 outbreak on ethnic groups, I want to make sure that the NHS is doing everything we can to reach out, reassure and support those pregnant women and new mums most at risk.

The pandemic outbreak has caused some people to worry about seeking help from the NHS, and there has been a decrease in attendances for some NHS services.

Warning signs like unusual fetal movement have also been dismissed by some women in fear that going to hospital is of greater risk to them, with local services today asked to deliver outreach programmes for at-risk communities.

Jacqueline Dunkley-Bent continued: “Understandably, the pandemic has caused pregnant women increased anxiety over the last couple of months, but I want to make sure that every pregnant woman in England knows that the NHS is here for them – if you have any doubt whatsoever that something isn’t right with you or your baby, contact your midwife immediately.”

This is the latest in a series of measures to support pregnant women from BAME communities.

The NHS Long Term plan commits to ensuring that by 2024, three-quarters of pregnant BAME women will receive care from the same midwife before, during and after they give birth. This is proven to help reduce pre-term births, hospital admissions, the need for intervention during labour and to improve women’s over experience of care."

www.england.nhs.uk

OhHolyJesus · 18/03/2021 22:58

This is for actual women then? It's sad that I'm shocked.