Ireland - choosing primary school - avoid gender ideology?

[ohnoitsagruffalo]

I'm trying to decide on primary school for my eldest child - is there any way to ask the school (or another way to find out?) what their policy is on "gender ideology" or whatever you would call it? They are all Catholic schools (although they have students who are not Catholic also) and there is one Church of Ireland school (which also has a mix of all faiths). there is no educate together close to us which is probably best as I think they are completely on board with this stuff? any advice appreciated!

They will just tell you they are "inclusive and accepting" of all children I imagine OP. With self-ID enshrined in law there's really not much else they can say. Plus I doubt most/any Irish primary schools actually have a policy on this and approach it on an ad-hoc basis as required.

thank you Sunhoop, this is kind of what I was thinking but just wanted to make sure i wasn't missing anything. we visited an educate together a while back (before we moved house) and they had the "gender rainbow" or whatever they called it up on the wall in pride of place so i am now completely biased against those schools

Ask to see their RSE pack. You can’t opt out of relationship and sex education training in schools. You can opt out of religion.

My school is trying to sneak Gender ideology into the RSE (from junior infants so age 4-5) making it impossible for parents to avoid it.

thanks XXSex, that's a good idea - do you know how the schools can have different RSE packs if they have all to take guidance from the Department of Education/syllabus? i don't understand our system . wow, JI is so young to be learning this stuff

They can develop their own. The department have guidelines but they are not set in stone.

I see. Are you able to do anything to stop the school getting gender ideology into the RSE in your school?

All schools teach the DES syllabus Educate Together are DES approved they just don't only teach Religion from Catholic perspective, they cover six main religions on two year cycles. Both my children are in Educate Together, my experience so far is - younger one at primary have rainbows up to represent families of the school they know families come in all sorts of shapes and sizes including same sex couples. That is as far as any discussions have gone. Sex education was delivered in fifth and sixth it covered reproduction and puberty. I don't recall any controversial topics I am sure it would have come up we have a very broad cultural base. My older child in ET secondary spend time in philosophy and ethical education discussing how to respect all individuals, their cultures, orientations and boundaries. There has been discussion about using appropriate language, not making assumptions and most importantly, be kind until you walk a mile in a person's shoes don't judge. I have found the education very balanced and child led. Perhaps send and email with your questions in a couple of weeks when the schools settle back.

I’m in discussion with the school on it. They will probably be teaching it anyway however I will be fighting it going into the RSE.

Once it’s in RSE it’s mandatory.

thanks Marbles, that's great you have had such a positive experience. The rainbow i saw up on the wall was the one with GI Joe on one end and Barbie on the other, so it definitely wasn't one to show diversity in families! It was in Dublin so maybe they are more "woke" in some areas there

Any single sex primaries near you? DS is in one, as it was the only school with space, but it's also largely free of these issues as there is far less social stereotyping going on. A pleasant surprise for me as was expecting the opposite.

Avoid any of the educate together schools as friends tell me it is all hippy dippy and loads of talk about "pronouns" .I personally would be going for a catholic one, as you are far less likely to find it there. Where are you based ?

Following with interest as we are moving from the UK to Ireland this summer and have places held in both ET and Catholic schools. Had been leaning towards ET (staunch atheists) but this makes me think again. DH doesn't get it though...

There is actually a single sex primary school near us but I had sort of ruled it out as his little sister will be following him into school next year and I had liked the idea of them being in the same school for a while...have heard that girls do better separate from boys when they are older so had thought mixed primary and then separate secondary. But I'm so undecided on everything tbh. We are in the South East of the country. Yes i had thought we would go ET as we are atheists too, but have been put off recently! (anyway it's not an option here, would be too far to travel for school). Though it seems these days, from what I've asked so far is that most of the "religious" schools are very accepting of children who don't want to take part in religion.

Surprised the gender rainbow was in a cohort school and not ours, interesting. We are in Dublin and i have been aware of two children over the past 8 years who requested they be known by opposite gender within the school community. I do wish you the best of luck in your search -it is becoming more and more challenging, I am sure you will find a place in a school that will be the right fit for you and your family.

thank you Marbles

Mine go to a Church of Ireland school in South Dublin (but kids of all faiths attend), and so far, touch wood, they've been very sensible about everything. I'm super, super impressed (in general with Irish education, and with this school in particular)

There was a boy in 6th Class last year who was the subject of some speculation, but nothing was changed at the school (which has single toilets per classroom, so TBH that side-steps one of the major primary issues anyway)

Oh, and it's non-uniform, so PE changing also not a problem.

@Kotatsu

Oh, and it's non-uniform, so PE changing also not a problem.

It would be very rare (possibly limited to fee-paying primaries) that primary school children would change for PE. It is not something I've ever come across. Where children have a uniform they would wear their PE uniform on those days though some schools now have tracksuit based uniforms for every day. At primary level I wouldn't be worrying about changing rooms.

OP, IME primary schools are relatively untouched to date. Secondary schools are much more challenging.

www.education.ie › Primary-PDF
Web results
Resource Material for Relationship and Sexuality Education Junior and Senior ...
This is the rse program that most schools follow. I have linked the junior infant one but the older classes will deal with more issues so just Google rse5th/6th. I am a junior infant teacher so I know Very little about the older years program but it might be something you would like to look at

The staysafe.ie program is compulsory also.

We have no policy on pronouns or the like in our school. I am in a Catholic mixed school and the staff are not very "woke" (in a good way)

@workshy44

Avoid any of the educate together schools as friends tell me it is all hippy dippy and loads of talk about "pronouns" .I personally would be going for a catholic one, as you are far less likely to find it there. Where are you based ?

That's bollocks.

Some ET schools might well be into the pronouns and trans ideology - looking at you, leafy parts of woke Dublin - but definitely not all.

And the hippy-dippy stuff is ridiculous. They're normal schools, just that the whole school day isn't laced with religious dogma.

If you want to know whether your local primary school (ET, Catholic, CoI, whatever...) is into gender woo, then asking for the RSE kit will help. But another good way is to check out the school's Facebook page, Twitter, newsletters on school website, etc. and see what they had to say around the time of anti-bullying week and trans remembrance day (both in November).

If it's all about being kind to your friends, everyone is different and that's great, how to help if someone is being bullied, etc. then all is well.

If it specifically mentions trans remembrance day instead of focusing on combating bullying (the appropriate focus for the week in primary schools), talks about gender identity like it's fact (e.g. the Barbie - GI Joe "spectrum"), thanks TENI for providing anti-bullying training, shows the kids the awful BBC kids' series Just a Girl as an example of how bullying is bad... then the school has at least one teacher who is into gender woo and yes, it will be shoved uncritically down kids' throats.

thanks @Kotatsu. there is actually a CoI school near us and I have spoken to the principal who seems nice but the issue I had with it is that you can't really opt out of religion there it seems. (Although she did say it is just one bible story a week and they talk about morals etc.) Whereas in the catholic schools I've asked it seems you can opt out. Then again,I understand that in the catholic schools they would be giving a substantial amount of time to communion and confirmation prep and my son would just be sitting there with his workbook or whatever during that time. at least that wouldn't be the case in the CoI school

thanks @3timeslucky - hopefully it hasn't hit the schools near us yet. and thank you @switswoo81, i will definitely look at those programs. thanks @MarDhea, ETs are not really an option for us anyway as they are a bit of a drive!

@ohnoitsagruffalo

thanks *@Kotatsu*. there is actually a CoI school near us and I have spoken to the principal who seems nice but the issue I had with it is that you can't really opt out of religion there it seems. (Although she did say it is just one bible story a week and they talk about morals etc.) Whereas in the catholic schools I've asked it seems you can opt out. Then again,I understand that in the catholic schools they would be giving a substantial amount of time to communion and confirmation prep and my son would just be sitting there with his workbook or whatever during that time. at least that wouldn't be the case in the CoI school

In RC schools you can opt out of faith formation (ie the practical stuff preparing children for their FHC and Confirmations). Where religion is woven into the fabric of the day and may be the colouring activity or the Christmas story or whatever it is much harder/impossible to opt out. That type of content is standard in CoI schools. I don't know if it is in RC schools. I know atheists who opted for a CoI school to avoid faith formation and were surprised at the amount of religious content. I can vouch for the fact that you can go through the full 8 years in a CoI school and still come out as a stalwart atheist. A lot of the teachings are about kindness, forgiveness etc etc and personally I think it is easy to frame bible stories as just that, stories; and beliefs as the beliefs of some rather than hard facts.

Yes, as 3times says, there's religious content - assembly for instance always had a sermon from the priest - which would mention religious stories, but always again age appropriate and with a clear moral, they do talk about whatever the relevant festival is at the relevant time of the year, but the head and the teachers do mainly stick to secular, but still kindness and acceptance and age appropriate - we have kids from all over, with various religions (or lack of)