"Stop telling women they have imposter syndrome"

[Umbivalent]

Really interesting article in the Harvard Business Review. Made me rethink a few things.

hbr.org/2021/02/stop-telling-women-they-have-imposter-syndrome

This paragraph rang true:

The label of imposter syndrome is a heavy load to bear. “Imposter” brings a tinge of criminal fraudulence to the feeling of simply being unsure or anxious about joining a new team or learning a new skill. Add to that the medical undertone of “syndrome,” which recalls the “female hysteria” diagnoses of the nineteenth century. Although feelings of uncertainty are an expected and normal part of professional life, women who experience them are deemed to suffer from imposter syndrome. Even if women demonstrate strength, ambition, and resilience, our daily battles with microaggressions, especially expectations and assumptions formed by stereotypes and racism, often push us down. Imposter syndrome as a concept fails to capture this dynamic and puts the onus on women to deal with the effects. Workplaces remain misdirected toward seeking individual solutions for issues disproportionately caused by systems of discrimination and abuses of power."

It's also v interesting on race and intersectionality in the workplace.

Good point I think

Of course transmen don't get a mention

I'm not sure I agree with this. Imposter syndrome isn't just about uncertainty, it's about a specific feeling of not belonging somewhere, and I think naming it helps people understand that it's not just them. It definitely helps me. I've also never really heard it talked about as a female-specific thing, but rather as something that applies broadly but that certain demographics, including women, are more likely to suffer from, because of social conditioning.

I think the point is that it isn't your fault

You don't have impostor syndrome, you have a reaction to , for want if a better word, abuse

Men get imposter syndrome too though don’t they?

Excellent piece that discusses the overlap of imposter syndrome for testimonial injustice (a subset of epistemic injustice):

“Imposter phenomenon” – the phenomenon of feelings of persistent self-doubt, or fear of being found out as a fraud – has attracted much attention in recent years. It encompasses a wide range of experiences and is said to be commonly experienced by healthcare professionals. Solutions to imposter phenomenon frequently emphasise ways in which individuals can reframe their thought processes. But what about situations where the idea that we are an imposter isn’t ‘all in our head’ but rather something that is fed back to us – either explicitly or implicitly?

I experienced such a situation this summer. I had tweeted a thread detailing thirteen health conditions in which Black and Asian communities had worse outcomes than White communities in the UK, to illustrate that ethnic inequalities in health existed well before COVID-19. One of the first reactions was someone quote-tweeting me with the words “Is this true and has it been medically fact checked?” I had referenced each statistic with a link directly to the cited paper, and had used my full name with Dr as my title, as well as my position and the NHS trust where I work, in my twitter profile, so this was an unwanted surprise. My partner, a philosopher, helpfully told me I had been regarded as having a “credibility deficit” and had experienced a “testimonial injustice”.

The term, testimonial injustice was coined by philosopher Miranda Fricker and is a type of epistemic injustice, or wrongdoing related to knowledge 1. Testimonial injustice occurs when the listener discounts the credibility of the speaker’s word due to prejudice about their social identity, and is often associated with gender, ethnicity, class, sexuality or religion.

blogs.bmj.com/bmjleader/2020/10/08/reframing-imposter-phenomenon-by-rageshri-dhairyawan/

Right? The problem is not that women feel unsure of themselves, but that there's a bunch of men (and occasionally women) who don't. Who feel absolutely entitled to take charge despite a lack of experience and knowledge. Who could benefit from feelings of uncertainty, which is actually rational.

But yes, as the article points out, feelings of uncertainty don't come from nowhere. We interpret the social scope that society allows us.

This is a great thread, thank you.

I am an expert in my field, and some of my peers tried (for YEARS) to discredit me because I said things which went against conventional practice. Gave me crippling imposter syndrome.

Turns out, I was right. I was right all along.

Which gave me HUGE satisfaction, and a professional award and a solid reputation for being an innovative thinker.

I still have the sick feeling though, especially if I know that that group are at a conference I'm presenting at.

I get a kick out of knowing how much they hate me, though, I'm not above that.

Am assuming science Vivarium

Interesting...
The term is problematic, yet the phenomenon exists. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see an alternative label which could be used in discussing it.

DDs (girls) school had a talk during a Science Week from Dame Jocelyn Bell Burnell, during which she mentioned having had 'imposter syndrome'. I thought it was very helpful, to have this mentioned by someone of her stature who clearly had been able to thrive despite it.

Perhaps there also needs to be some naming of its counterpart - confident incompetence or whatever. At one point in my career I had a few (male, American) colleagues whose attitude was 'can do' but their aptitude was 'couldn't do'. It took me a while to see through the gloss. They're long since ex colleagues.

Yes ! I have thought this for a long time.

I have no doubt that the feeling exists, as I feel it and I also suffer from the other female malady of low self esteem. But it just seems it's almost compulsory for women to suffer these conditions. I get slightly irritated when I'm in a group of women (myself included) all falling over each other to confess to bigger problems with these issues and I notice that magazines and social media are packed full of courses and books and gurus looking to fix them. It reminds me very much of 'hysteria' or neuroticism which women apparently suffered from in large numbers in the past.

It also reminds me of something I came across, (but I don't remember where) about borderline personality disorder which people are beginning to take a critical approach to. How about if BPD is a normal reaction to sustained abuse?

I'm not saying imposter syndrome doesn't exist but perhaps that too is a normal reaction to implicit and explicit resistance to women having authority and I also question why women are so quick to claim this syndrome. It's almost like a performative self deprecation 'I might look smart and powerful but don't worry, I'm not a threat to you because I'm just a little mouse underneath and I try to be nice and kind all the time'

I'm not saying imposter syndrome doesn't exist but perhaps that too is a normal reaction to implicit and explicit resistance to women having authority and I also question why women are so quick to claim this syndrome. It's almost like a performative self deprecation 'I might look smart and powerful but don't worry, I'm not a threat to you because I'm just a little mouse underneath and I try to be nice and kind all the time'

I'm not sure that's quite it. Once you name it, I think you're saying 'I may feel like this but I'm not an imposter, just someone who has been made to feel like one'.

Once you name it, I think you're saying 'I may feel like this but I'm not an imposter, just someone who has been made to feel like one'.

Agreed, Errol.

For me, imposter syndrome is the predictable outcome of Fricker's testimonial injustice (above) and especially when there is an intersection of 'justifications' for some classes or systems to discount the experience and expertise of others (no matter how much verifiable evidence they provide).

Perhaps there also needs to be some naming of its counterpart - confident incompetence or whatever.

There is but I can't remember the term.

I need to read the article but I feel knowing the state of mind is helpful to tackle or assess how much is lack of confidence or being among those who haven't got there yet, than yourself.

Perhaps there also needs to be some naming of its counterpart - confident incompetence or whatever.

Sometimes known as the Dunning-Kruger effect.

That's it, thanks.

I've read it now and it makes some interesting points.

I work in a professional field (teaching) which is heavily female and so when my colleagues have self doubt (many do) imposter syndrome does seem to fit, and the few men who come in and head to the top do often (not always) seem to talk the talk but not walk the walk. Confidence Doesn’t Equal Competence

This article highlights many other intersectional factors of race and background which are relevant in many contexts.

I can well imagine talks on imposter syndrome are used like sticking plasters in the corporate world to gloss over deeper issues of sexism and racism.

I have definitely experienced what vivarium described and for a while struggled with immense self doubt. To then be proved right.

Interesting. Im not high achieving and i know medium achieving women can be made to feel like this. Atm my boss (male) is trying to hyper focus on my mistakes as a way of dealing with his stress. It's so confidence-sapping.

Yes, I remembered D-K that after I'd posted. It's something like that but in combination with 'privilege' factors which lead to such people being hired and heeded (sometimes for a short time until they're fired, but sometimes promoted)9

Thank-you for posting this, it's really interesting.

Do men get imposter syndrome? My experience of mentoring juniors is yes but not as often and not in the same way. The underconfident, overachieving possibly autistic young women is a masssive stereotype in my field. The men simply aren't the same.

I'd be very interested in reframing this to juniors as not imposter syndrome but them being talked over, interrupted, expected to make drinks all adding up to a feeling of 'am I good enough?' in a way the men don't have.

Yeh i wonder if i have that now, just believing that i am competent! That my % of mistakes is not much higher than average! Or, if it is a bit higher, that my other skills don't make up for it. My male boss has me so demoralised lately. Like he wants me to accept im crap. A voice in my head says "but you're not". Then another voice says "maybe i have that durning kruger effect and i have some nerve defending my performance".

highame how on EARTH did you guess?

Do men get imposter syndrome? My experience of mentoring juniors is yes but not as often and not in the same way.

One place I've noticed it applying to both sexes is in some of the discussions on the Higher Ed board. 'Not for the likes of us', and kids who've got a coveted offer doubting themselves because someone with better grades didn't. It's hopefully relatively easy to counter in those situations with a robust 'they chose you, against the competition'. Unfortunately, entirely correct and fair attempts by unis to address structural imbalances can feed into the syndrome - kids feeling they got a place because of a quota rather than merit. This is of course one of the criticisms levelled at all women shortlists etc (wrongly, I think).

I’ve often seen studies which show women are more unsure of themselves or devalue their abilities. For example, there will be women who are qualified for a position but when asked they’ll say they aren’t qualified yet whereas there are more men under qualified who will go for the position.

However that’s not the full picture. You give CVs to groups of people and ask them to assess whether the candidate is suitable for a position. If the CV has a man’s name they’re more likely to say they are qualified and rate them higher even though the only difference between the CVs is whether it’s man or woman’s name.

So I think women are sometimes being realistic to how others view them.

One of my favourite recent discussions that touches on perceptions of meritocracy and imposter syndrome is from Arrianna Planey and it goes to the heart of testimonial and epistemic injustice.

"When someone manages to rise up through our hobbled alleged meritocracy and is crowned the first to hold a position, I know that does not mean that they were the only one who possibly could."

I’d assumed everyone understood this, but it has become clear to me in the last few years, as these news of firsts in media and publishing and film and sports came rolling in, as people wrote and agonized over what felt like a shift in culture, that that was naive. People in power, the ones doing the crowning, generally believe that there is no one else qualified until they happen to decide to bestow the crown. It’s easier that way, isn’t it? To think that the first happened just because the right person finally managed to emerge and break through, and not because there was a whole system put in place to make sure no one who looks a certain way or comes from a particular background ever has a chance to do so in the first place.

I am reminded of a Chris Rock quote, one he gave during Barack Obama’s second term as president. “To say Obama is progress is saying that he’s the first Black person that is qualified to be president. That’s not Black progress. That’s white progress. There’s been Black people qualified to be president for hundreds of years.”