Am I a victim or a slut?

[carolynjw75]

I need some help. I see the press about#metoo and grooming etc. I’ve had relations with men from the age of 15 - fathers of children I’ve babysat, me I’ve met in pubs, men at work - but was I in control of that or was I manipulated or taken advantage of? I’ve always liked to think I was in control but as I’ve grown older (and wiser) I’ve wondered, was I taken advantage off? I certainly regret some if those decisions taken very early in my like. I recently raised these issues with my current partner and was very upset that his attitude seemed to be that I was wrong as a 15 year old encouraging these attentions. I’d be very interested in other opinions.

@VampireTheBuffetSlayer

I'm coming to terms in my late 40s that a lot of the decisions I made in my younger years were coercive. The love bombing, the manipulation, so much of it was not in my control. I'm trying to not be an angry older women but it's hard!

This!!!!

I feel girls growing up in the 80s and 90s were sold a lie, we were led to believe we were the ones in charge when really we were totally socialised into thinking sexual promiscuity at 15 was empowering and a good thing.

@Sstrongtn

I’ve only been raped once. Not that the police believe me despite the fact I was black, blue and unable to walk.

But I’ve had coerced, lazy or semi consensual sex far too many times. From the man who followed a far too drunk me into the toilet in a pub, to the one who texted the morning after he left a hotel room to say get the MAP because I didn’t use the condoms we agreed on every time, those would be the times he started as I slept.

It’s not you it’s them.

I could have written this. I'm betting there's many women on here who could unfortunately 💐

I have similar stories. I ‘had sex’ at 15 with much older men. I don’t know, it was really normal at the time and I didn’t think of it as a particularly huge deal but as I’ve got older I’ve seen it differently. I don’t think I was a victim and I certainly don’t use the word slut. I think it was wrong and those men were wrong but I don’t think I’ve ‘survived’ anything (not in these instances but yes in others) nor feel that I was groomed, coerced or abused either. But if I heard of another 15 year old these days having sex with a 25 year old for example, I’d absolutely think of it as coercive, abusive and statutory rape - which it is.

It’s very hard to unpick when it comes to my own experiences though.

Very similar things happened to me, and I blamed myself right up until my therapist asked me how I'd feel about my daughters (teens at the time) if they were in that situation. It honestly took that to make me see myself as victim/survivor of predatory men. Therapist also helped me see that I was groomed in later relationships too, despite being over the age of consent, due to trauma of early CSA. Basically it felt normal to me.
My best wishes to you x

Don't fall into the Madonna/whore binary trap (or the victim mentality trap). Just you, interacting with a flawed world. You were taken advantage of, if adults slept with you at 15, but that is not to say you had no agency. What you did with that agency is neither morally good nor bad, it just is what it is.

You were 15, and dealing with the world as you knew it then.

Thank you all so much for your replies. They have really helped me to think about where I was and where I am now. I will definitely spend some time working through this, but the first step I think was to peel away the shame I was obviously feeling and you have all helped me to do that. Thank you

Erase the word slut from your vocabulary. You were taken advantage of as a girl. I am sorry this happened to you. You should have been protected by the adults in your life as a teen.

At 15 I chased a man in his twenties and "went out" with him for a few weeks.
He dumped me because he couldn't get past how young I was.
He had only kissed me at this point and wanted a relationship where he wouldn't feel like a "paedo" (his word) for doing more with his girlfriend.
At the time I was sad and hurt, felt very rejected. Now I think Thank God one of us had sense and unsurprisingly it was the adult.
I had many other interactions with men his age and older who didn't seem to have his scruples at all, but I didn't fancy them so they never got further than groping and attempting to kiss me.
Not trying to minimise that but it was such a normal experience for me and my friends that it wasn't shocking at the time.
If you want a label get yourself a survivor badge, you've earned it

My darling for whatever reasons, you were vulnerable to predators who were able to smell you like a shark can smell a drop of blood for miles in the ocean. You’re still here to ask this question, but you’re neither of those things. You are a human being and you are a survivor. I’m so proud of you!

My first serious relationship, which was controlling and abusive, had a 9 year age gap.

When I got into that relationship, I was 20. After I got out of it, aged 27, I went on a few dates with a man who was 24. The difference in life experience and maturity amazed me. It really made me re-evaluate what kind of man my ex was to be nearly 30 and picking up (totally naive) undergraduate women.

OP - I'd suggest you speak to some 15-year olds (male and female), or just find some teen influencers on Instagram/you tube and watch a few videos. I would be very surprised if, within a few minutes, you are not thinking something like "My God, this person is a child!"

As teenagers, we often feel like we are adults - and want to be treated like adults. Which makes it hard for us to recognise how much "growing up" we still have to do, and how much our outlook and attitudes change as a result of that.

There's a movie called "The Tale," that explores some of these ideas - a woman gradually realising that a relationship she had always characterised as a relationship with an older boyfriend was in fact abuse by a predatory paedophile. It's a very tough watch, but it might help you start a conversation with your boyfriend about agency and power. This article / interview with the director, who based it on her own experience, is also really good:
www.google.com/amp/s/www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-features/is-the-tale-hbos-most-controversial-movie-ever-630017/amp/

You are neither a victim nor a slut OP - you are you - a human being, a woman, and an individual - you don’t need a label.

You may well have had agency as a 15 year old, but you were not an adult - thus you were not able to consent to relationships with men - so by having relationships with you they were abusing you.

I really think you need to arrange some counselling to work through what happened and to reframe how you think about yourself - and take back your power. You could give Women’s Aid a ring for some pointers.

Along the way you might want to take a look at your relationship - it not acceptable that your partner took to blaming you.