Men not listening

[Happinessisawarmcervix]

It seems to me there’s a parallel between the backlash we’re seeing from men and male supporters on women’s safety on the streets and the wilful blindness on single sex spaces.

No, we’re not saying all men are rapists. We’re saying that some men are rapists and that means we have to be vigilant All The Fucking Time.

We’re not saying that transwomen are rapists. We’re saying that if you weaken single-sex rules, some men will take advantage of this for bad reasons.

Men seem unable or unwilling to actually listen to the nuances of what women are saying.

They dismiss our fears of walking on the street in the dark as easily as they dismiss our fears about opening the doors of our refuges and hospital wards to anyone who declares themselves female.

DH listens, but readily admits it's only because I have been pointing out and sharing things for years. It took a man actually taking me off and groping me when my 'crime' was wearing shorts and no wedding ring for him to understand how prevalent it is and the victim Blamey stuff is all bullshit. It's not that he condoned it before, it's just he didn't realise how much of an everyday thing it is and how we organise our lives round risk taking analysis.

Bottom line is it doesn't impact most men, so they like to live in ignorance.

And then of course there's the red flag men who absolutely know the problems because they make it their mission to find loopholes and exploit them.

I've said this forever, but every part of society needs to be educating boys and men out of thinking certain behaviours are acceptable.
You can see this works in theory as different countries have different standards for what female abuse is acceptable. In India it's fine to rape an unchaperoned girl who talks to a man (it really is socially accepted for the most part) whereas in the UK that's not cool but a pinched bottom is seen as bantz.
It's that society has decided on this low bar of behaviour from men that it continues. If everyone called it out for what it was it would quickly become unfashionable to be a jerk and they'd stick out like sore thumbs.

Yes, we'll never eradicate male violence, but society as a whole needs to actually try and not just 'boys will be boys' it.

I suspect most men have done something that crosses the line and it's easier to be dismissive of women's experiences.

But I am amazed at how many of these men are also super-woke. The new misogyny, wolves in sheep's clothing.

Was trying to explain female fear to DH this morning but he really didn’t get it & started to “namalt” & “it’s an over reaction”

I listed the things I do to keep safe when I go for a run and he started to sort of see but his immediate default response was “I don’t do it so it’s nothing to do with me” which was really fucking disappointing

Oh they're listening.

They're secretly perfectly aware of their privilege, most obviously whenever there is any attempt to equalise matters, which results in a burst of rage, faux offence (NAMALT/SWALT) and pretence that nothing is wrong.

The obtuse reaction of men, en masse, is an entirely intentional attempt to silence us and retain the status quo.

I suspect most men have donesomethingthat crosses the line and it's easier to be dismissive of women's experiences

This is my feeling too.

Men are so used to being centred that anything else seems like a personal attack. I think men even the " good ones " ( even though "good" seems to actually just mean what most would deem.normal behaviour) secretly like the restrictions that us women place on ourselves. Their roles as protectors and providers they cherish so much ( because that's the only reason we put up with shitty behaviour is because we don't feel we have have choice) would not exist as they know it other wise. The fear keeps us in check so they don't have to.

Men benefit from it. That's why they will throw tantrums when it's pointed out how women feel. Amd why we can only discuss male violence when it includes or is defined against men.

I read a blog post by a man defending his sex by citing the fact no woman he’s met for a date has ever appeared to be uncomfortable or scared.

And I thought no shit, that’s because it’s unsafe for us to give any hint of feeling unhappy during a date.

If it was safe, we wouldn’t need Ask for Angela schemes.

Proves the point really. Where not scaring your dates somehow elevates your behaviour to some superior level and earns you the privilege of being " not one of those guys"

To the rest of us that should be standard . Something that wouldn't have to even said.

Absolutely, the nice guy bar is low and some men interpret it to be: I'm not rapey so I am therefore a nice guy and women owe me sex and gratitude.

Comedian Hannah Gadsby says it so well in her speech on "the good men"

TheBuffster

Such a great post, particularly this bit.

I've said this forever, but every part of society needs to be educating boys and men out of thinking certain behaviours are acceptable.
You can see this works in theory as different countries have different standards for what female abuse is acceptable. In India it's fine to rape an unchaperoned girl who talks to a man (it really is socially accepted for the most part) whereas in the UK that's not cool but a pinched bottom is seen as bantz.
It's that society has decided on this low bar of behaviour from men that it continues. If everyone called it out for what it was it would quickly become unfashionable to be a jerk and they'd stick out like sore thumbs.

I keep trying to explain this to people, but it never seems to get through. They seem to see the current stage in the UK as if we've already reached the limits of what we can do to have a better society. I don't agree.

We live in a society where we freely victim-blame women for what they wore and where they were were, and it's not just women who hear these comments. Everyone hears these justifications of sexual violence, including potential perpetrators. If we excuse rape, rapists will excuse themselves too.

I think men even the " good ones " ( even though "good" seems to actually just mean what most would deem.normal behaviour) secretly like the restrictions that us women place on ourselves. Their roles as protectors and providers they cherish so much ( because that's the only reason we put up with shitty behaviour is because we don't feel we have have choice) would not exist as they know it other wise. The fear keeps us in check so they don't have to.

Spot on. Many men love the fact that other men are so horrible that the bar to be considered a good man is ridiculously low.

If patriarchy didn't exist, 80% of men, in common with other species, would never mate. Because women wouldn't be able to stand them.