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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Has twaw been tested in court?

31 replies

confuseddotcomma · 12/03/2021 20:51

Just that really. Does it have a legal basis?

OP posts:
nauticant · 14/03/2021 21:21

If anyone wants a shortcut, an image search on harry josie giles is informative.

Tibtom · 14/03/2021 21:34

The preliminary ONS determined that sex referred to birth certificate and GRC only so for that TWANW.

The forwomenscotland case it still waiting a verdict on whether the scottish parliament can change the meaning of the word women from that in the equality act. The equality states quite clearly that a woman is a female of any age so TWANW.

ANewCreation · 14/03/2021 21:52

Link to the 2010 Equality Act

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/212?view=plain

"Man" means a male of any age

"Woman" means a female of any age

Our existing UK equality law re sex is based on this binary. Hence the single sex exceptions for those who have changed gender.

The trick is to attempt to conflate the two...

gardenbird48 · 14/03/2021 22:30

@confuseddotcomma

My personal interest comes from the NHS. Single sex accommodation is mandatory and when breached this has to be reported. But trans people can choose their own ward. It makes no sense - if it is such a problem having a male body in a female space, why is that suddenly ok if they are trans? And I was thinking, the only way that could make sense was if twaw has a legal basis and the NHS trust could say, this is ok because they are legally women. Personal experience of trans people being placed on ward of their choosing even when it is distressing to existing female patients.
hi confusedd do you happen to know how frequently the Single Sex Accommodation policy is breached in the usual way (by putting non-female identifying males on the ward) and in that case, what risk assessment/mitigation takes place to protect female patients?

Our local hospital trust does not record a SSA breach when it is caused by placing a transwoman on the female ward is very concerning and therefore apparently no risk assessment/mitigation takes place.

The trust policy includes people that identify as a woman on a part-time basis as eligible to choose to be on a female only ward (I'm guessing yours is similar?). I wonder how they can square it that a male merely stating that they wish to be placed on the female ward (no other criteria required regarding appearance/records etc) overrides all safeguarding considerations and any wish that a female patient has to be on a single sex ward.

It leaves the staff in a potentially awful situation as they have little backup or authority to deny a request from any man to be on the female ward, even if they have concerns for his intentions - in our trust, staff that mention a person's trans status (even if this is unverified) in any situation other than very specific essential medical discussion could be prosecuted or receive a large fine (the threat to staff made in the policy). If a female patient protests at a male person on the ward, the staff can't discuss it with them or other staff.

I think the NHS Trusts have received faulty legal advice either directly or indirectly from Stonewall and EHRC. The policy for our local trust is currently under review so it will be interesting to see what changes they make as the current version is a shocker.

Xpectations · 14/03/2021 23:17

@gardenbird48
Individual health trusts will refer to DoH guidance re their policies.
NHS Improvement published guidance laughably titled ‘Delivering Single Sex Accommodation’ in 2019. One of the matrices in the appendix concerns how to accommodate transgendered people, basically in the ward of their choosing according to their gender identity, of which no objective verification can be sought. If your Trust is updating its policy, it will refer to this guidance.

improvement.nhs.uk/documents/6005/Delivering_same_sex_accommodation_sep2019.pdf

Cattenberg · 14/03/2021 23:55

@ANewCreation

Link to the 2010 Equality Act

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/212?view=plain

"Man" means a male of any age

"Woman" means a female of any age

Our existing UK equality law re sex is based on this binary. Hence the single sex exceptions for those who have changed gender.

The trick is to attempt to conflate the two...

That’s a lot clearer than I thought, then. BTW, I don’t want to see sex and gender conflated. I don’t want three of the protected characteristics to merge into one meaningless fudge. But I’m interested in what the “other side” have to say.
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