Caroline Noakes says TW suffer more domestic abuse

[SorryAuntLydia]

Caroline Noakes just stated that TW are more likely to suffer domestic abuse than 'other women'. Can anyone show me the data on this (tone-deaf) contribution to the IWD debate in Parliament?

If this isn't true, then what is the head of the Women and Equalities Committee doing, saying it?

Tinsel Angel might have something to say on that....

I'd be interested in seeing that data too.
And what they're categorising as 'domestic abuse' too because I've seen a good few TW on twitter complaining about 'financial abuse' from their ex-wives when they were just being asked to provide their share of maintenance for their children.

Yes, pull the data.

I seem to remember in the Scots parliament discussion on this it was mentioned that TW victims of DA are very rarely ever in fear of their lives or have suffered physical violence, and as we know from the transwidows who have helped raise awareness, the abuse a TW may be escaping could be misgendering or their ex wife deadnaming them.

It's rather like hate incidents. What should be a collation of information that passes gatekeeping of thresholds becomes at risk of being seen as trivial or exaggerated because everything has been lumped under the heading of 'abuse'.

It's important that those speaking on this are factual and using demonstrated, proven data or they are at risk of looking as if they may be exaggerating their personal political agenda instead of acting in genuine faith. It is also repeatedly shouting 'wolf' at the general public, who are increasingly starting to reply 'yeah yeah....' when these should be serious and important things to keep proper track of and respond to.

given that abuse seems to include "wives failing to be fully supportive and cheering me on" Id take that with a massive vat of salt!

What a load of bollocks.

Adult males do not suffer more domestic abuse than females. 2-3 women a week murdered by their partners/husbands or exes.

Oh and Kirsty Blackman just repeated this.

BTW let me correct the previous MP's name to Caroline *Nokes

Here you go

www.ksscrc.co.uk/2020/04/30/research-domestic-abuse-in-lgbt-communities/

I dont know why Noakes just doesnt declare herself minister for men and have done with it

on today of all days, after all the outpouring of fear and anger from women about being attacked she pulls

'its worse for men who identify as women' with no evidence to back it up at all

I have found this, I have only skimmed read it but it does seem (on face value) to support what was said.

www.ksscrc.co.uk/2020/04/30/research-domestic-abuse-in-lgbt-communities/

But they can't be lumped in with DV of women, both groups need their own approaches. It also cements further my initial feelings that those in the transgender community are more likely to have had adverse childhood experiences and that is still all there.

X posted

On the same day as a TW whose writing includes a positive paean of praise to how being hit makes you feel all womanly gets shortlisted for a women's prize. FML.

What's her job and where is her definitions and evidence? Why has she focused on this issue, doesn't she know the femicide stats?

Isn't Jess Philips reading out the names of murdered women in parliament today?

Jess did read out the names. So bloody sad.
And in a turn up for the books, I actually agreed with what Dawn Butler just said. Colour me stunned.

What's her job and where is her definitions and evidence? Why has she focused on this issue, doesn't she know the femicide stats?

As PPs indicate, it's a very nuanced discussion that doesn't lend itself to a glance at headline statistics.

And it's not helped by removing women over a certain age from DV stats because they allegedly then fall into the category of safeguarding rather than DV.

Well of course they do TW experience everything more than the cunty type do. I don't know why we're even getting so worked up and 'hysterical' about women being murdered and abused. Don't you know it hurts men's fee fees when we talk about structural misogyny which is so much worse.

If we could just be nicer and smile more then the world would be a much better place /s

I am fucking raging today at all the people excusing and dismissing MVAW

@toffeebutterpopcorn

What's her job and where is her definitions and evidence? Why has she focused on this issue, doesn't she know the femicide stats?

Isn't Jess Philips reading out the names of murdered women in parliament today?

She did and there are some very cross people accusing her of omitting transwomen. I think they are slightly missing the point that there are actually no transwomen names to read out for that time period. But who wants facts to get in the way of criticising a woman?

That link provided by disgusted goes some way to explaining inflated statistics. See its examples of “specific abuse unique to LGBT relationships:

Threat of disclosure of sexual orientation and gender identity to family, friends, or work colleagues
Increased isolation because of factors like lack of family support or safety nets
Undermining someone’s sense of gender or sexual identity particularly when one partner is transgender”

Seriously...

than 'other women'

Nokes is doing a Mordaunt. And the hand-wringing about conversion therapy without even acknowledging young women like Keira Bell

After everything that has happened in the last 2-3 years, we are now lumbered with Nokes as the chair of the women's SC. She is just as obtuse as Maria Miller.

I don't have time to go into detail now, but we've discussed this study on FWR before.

The most important take away is that no such comparison is possible on the available data. In the absence of solid evidence, the sex ratio of domestic violence victims is what politicians need to refer to. And that continues to show that female people suffer higher rates of domestic violence.

IIRC, the issues with the available studies are:

• definitions (of what constitutes domestic violence, of who counts as a perpetrator in domestic violence - normally neither landlords nor work colleagues count as perpetrators and disagreements or disapproval aren't considered violence.)

• extremely small sample sizes (available studies typically seek to examine the entire LGBT community, which means that transgender victims of domestic violence in these studies can be in the 20s or even lower. Which does not allow for sound statistical significance of the data.)

• not disaggregating the collected data by sex of victims and that of perpetrators (as female victims far outnumber male victims in domestic violence and male perpetrators far outnumber female ones, it would be important to do this in order to properly analyse the data. But that doesn't happen.)

Thank you @CharlieParley that is really helpful.

And highlights exactly how ignorant it was for Ms Nokes and Ms Blackman MPs to make this comment during a debate for IWD and on today of all days.

Well I’ve just been listening to R4 about violence to women. Stomping along the road snorking loudly and ready to explode. I am beyond fury now... I just keep thinking of women silenced, women murdered, abused and just treated as a bloody joke.

Yes we all deserve to be safe and protected. But when 51% of the population have a target on their backs we cannot afford to lose even one woman’s voice, or post or shortlist space.

Charley that is so interesting and very helpful, thank you.

'Firstly, despite widely available statistics on domestic abuse in the UK, there are no official figures on the prevalence of domestic abuse in those identifying themselves as LGBTQ.'

Well hold on a minute.

The police have been using self id for crime for ages as per what they were advised (although no forces can give a date they made the switch or why).

So do they want decent stats or not?

Decent stats- sex and gender id/trans status.

They seem to be complaining that the stats they said shouldn't be collected don't exist :/

From that report.

The longstanding narrative around domestic abuse has long since been heteronormative, due to ‘heterosexual hegemony’, and second wave feminist literature which portrays domestic abuse as gendered with men primarily being the perpetrators and females being the victims (Donovan & Hester, 2014).

I wonder if Caroline Noakes is prepared to go all the way and say that the concept of violence against women is 'heteronormative' and made up by second wave feminists?