#TooManyMen response

[LastNightIDreamtIWentToTesco]

I could maybe understand his point if men routinely felt they couldn't walk alone at night, gave taxi details/routes to friends before using, held house keys in a certain way when approaching their door etc etc

Do you think men like this purposely don't get it?

Uuurgh. He does not get it. Are those men being killed by women?

He doesn't understand that those men are most likely killed due to gang affiliation and women are killed while being just living their little lives walking the street or being a wife. that is a BIG difference

Ask him if he is &£@"); scared of walking at night or, suggestion of the BBC (!!!!!!), exercising at night (apparently better to avoid Covid , let's avoid Covid and be raped/murdered. Much better)

It's a false equivalence.

It's not just about murder. It's about sexual assaults and harassment too, which girls and women are subjected to a lot.

Also, men aren't really encouraged to feel afraid the way women are. Things do happen to men, but no one then blames those men for wearing the wrong clothes or for being out alone or for going on a gap year or for going to a guy's house or staying with a violent partner. Police don't publish advice telling men how to not get raped or murdered. Women are constantly encouraged to see it as within our control to stop these things happening to us.

Also, I'd feel much safer if I knew I had a chance of being able to fight back if attacked. And men have that. And so many men have unwarranted confidence that I can imagine them being fairly confident of being able to handle a violent situation. But women are the physically weaker sex and until we're allowed to carry weapons or develop 'the power' there isn't much chance of being able to stop a man if he decides to attack.

I remember when my DD was 15 and came home from being at the local shop with a few friends. 2 other females and 1 male.

It wasn't late, about 6.30pm, but it was dark.

She came home and told me she had realised the difference between boys and girls. The boy couldn't understand why the girls would walk the long way round, brightly lit, next to a main road with lots of people, instead of taking the very dark and quiet alley.

They tried to explain to him but, as she said to me, they'll never actually understand it.

I wonder what the percentages would be if so many women didn't self-limit what they do, if so many nice sensible men and boys didn't escort women and girls safely home, if most women who do go out alone didn't take far more care than a man would?

@ErrolTheDragon

I wonder what the percentages would be if so many women didn't self-limit what they do, if so many nice sensible men and boys didn't escort women and girls safely home, if most women who do go out alone didn't take far more care than a man would?

I've often wondered this too.

Errol I don't know... I'm inclined to think that we're not really protecting ourselves that much at all. Killers will will. Rapists will rape.

And aside from that, women tend to be killed inside their homes, and men outside. When we stay away from dark places and escort one another home, we're not taking measures against the actual risk - which is the risk of being killed by a male relative or domestic partner.

I missed from my list the huge numbers of women who don't go out unchaperoned at night because of patriarchal/controlling/overprotective men who won't allow 'their' women out.

The 'actual risk' is both within and without the house. The real dangers outside give controlling men another level over the liberty of 'their' women.

@ErrolTheDragon

I wonder what the percentages would be if so many women didn't self-limit what they do, if so many nice sensible men and boys didn't escort women and girls safely home, if most women who do go out alone didn't take far more care than a man would?

Same! I'm a life long Londoner and my entire social life has been constructed around 'how can I safely get home". To the point in the past of not attending things when I couldn't afford the taxi home. And a lot of very drunken cycling when younger. Not "hysterical". Living with the trauma of things that already happened.

1 in 5 women are affected by sexual assault. 1 in 16 men are. So I'd say yes, we have a fairly good reason to be more fearful.

It's not just about not being killed. We shouldn't be ok with being more likely to be harassed and raped just because we haven't been killed. Is the bar really so low? We should just be grateful we're not dead?

The crime survey shows only 13% of rapes/attempted rapes on women were by a perpetrator who was a stranger to the victim and 45% were by a partner or ex. I still think the danger is mostly inside our homes, and from people we know. We take a lot of steps to keep ourselves safe outside the home, but I don't think we're avoiding a lot of crime. I think that rapists will rape. And sexual assaulters will assault. And they will take the easy pickings. And it will be women they know.

If we all took to the dark alleys near our homes, or walked across parks at 11.30pm, maybe more of us would be assaulted. But I think most of this sexual crime against women is about control. It's the men we know who want to control us. Like Errol said "the huge numbers of women who don't go out unchaperoned at night because of patriarchal/controlling/overprotective men who won't allow 'their' women out".

Collidascope said: "Things do happen to men, but no one then blames those men for wearing the wrong clothes or for being out alone or for going on a gap year or for going to a guy's house or staying with a violent partner. Police don't publish advice telling men how to not get raped or murdered. Women are constantly encouraged to see it as within our control to stop these things happening to us." That's about control - men's control of us. That's where we need to push back. We can help ourselves by being more like Sarah Everard. It seems counter-intuitive, since she died as she exercised her freedom to walk home after dark. But she didn't die because of it. She died because of a man. What happened to Sarah is an outlier. We're in more danger from people we know.

Privilege with a side order of misogyny.

The man most likely to kill you is your partner or an ex partner this is because he feels that he owns you, that you are an object and he can do what you likes to you

Looking at his twitter he's been very vocal and goady, I particularly liked his 'pah your opinion doesn't matter because you only have 60 followers' attitude.

I have more followers than him so tweeted him myself. He hasn't responded

@Collidascope

It's a false equivalence.

It's not just about murder. It's about sexual assaults and harassment too, which girls and women are subjected to a lot.

Also, men aren't really encouraged to feel afraid the way women are. Things do happen to men, but no one then blames those men for wearing the wrong clothes or for being out alone or for going on a gap year or for going to a guy's house or staying with a violent partner. Police don't publish advice telling men how to not get raped or murdered. Women are constantly encouraged to see it as within our control to stop these things happening to us.

Also, I'd feel much safer if I knew I had a chance of being able to fight back if attacked. And men have that. And so many men have unwarranted confidence that I can imagine them being fairly confident of being able to handle a violent situation. But women are the physically weaker sex and until we're allowed to carry weapons or develop 'the power' there isn't much chance of being able to stop a man if he decides to attack.

This is so true.

It's there - plus knwoledge that if something did happen many would find fault with me.

I don't think DH got it till our eldest teen started getting to age where she goes out and about on her own. Prior to that I often found my fears and concerns minimised or dismissed.

Now I'm desperately trying to find that middle ground of making DD1 aware of the dangers and possible statergies for minimising it without making her scared or putting unnecessary limits on her. It's infuriating that I feel the need to do that at all.

To be frank, I don’t know why you bothered to post this as you’re just giving him a further platform to spread his nonsense. The tweet has clearly gained no traction vs the 100k+ engagement from opposing tweets.

Obviously I agree with what you’re saying but there’s always zany idiots that try to be controversial for clout on social media. There’s really no point in wasting your energy trying to convince such a loser to think otherwise - you’re just giving him the attention he desperately seeks

My friend at uni got grabbed when cycling home at night by a man who wanted to tell her she shouldn't be cycling home that late it terrified her and she said 'he's right, I'll never do that again'. I was furious that he did that to her and changed her freedom probably forever.

So men get killed. By men (generally)
Women get killed. (Again by men).

Looks to me like it's men that are the problem here.