"Othering" Female victims of crime.

[Mrsmorton]

I'm on a FB group which is mostly quite privileged women (a work thing).

There is a thread about the utterly heartbreaking news this evening and people are posting "oh she looks so normal" "oh she looks like she could be a friend of mine"

And I'm sure I have read research somewhere that this is a phenomenon. We think it's worse when "people like us" are victims whereas if they are sex workers or living in poverty or part of a minority community, that's "ok". Which it's clearly fucking not.

I'd love to post something to call it out and generate some introspection but I don't have anything eloquent and it's hard to google as a phenomenon.

Grateful for thoughts.

Don’t try and score political points on the back of a dead woman.

I think it's a reasonable question although understand why the timing might seem poor.

There's a massive difference in how things are treated depending on what the victims characteristics are.

I'll leave that there in case this thread gets zapped.

OP this might help

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome

It's a natural part of our self-preservation mechanism to be more shocked/concerned when we can picture ourselves in the same situation because we aren't just thinking "I don't want anything bad to happen to anyone," we're also (mainly) thinking "I don't want anything bad to happen to me".

I don't think criticising or lamenting individuals thinking that way is reasonable or effective (I think it's an inbuilt, natural way for the brain to work).

But ensuring our institutions - including the press - don't simply take on the cases of the more familiar, powerful or sympathetic victims is an important goal.

Yes, it's a pretty well known phenomenon that, as a former sex worker, I've seen a lot of.

It's easier for people to pretend we're different from them or fit into a nice little stereotypical box so they don't have to face the fact that any woman can be a victim even if they're white, middle class, and behave 'perfectly'. I've seen people on here saying that if you don't want to be raped, don't become a sex worker and then deny that it's victim blaming.

I'm sure a lot of marginalised or minority women would tell you the same.

Instead of posting a one off platitude, why not make it a commitment to learn about this from people who actually experience it and ask marginalised women these things directly in future?

I completely agree. Now is not the time to debate though.

I don't think criticising or lamenting individuals thinking that way is reasonable or effective (I think it's an inbuilt, natural way for the brain to work).

It's not. It's a bias, which you can unlearn.

I don't really understand the purpose of posting this today? A woman's remains have been found. Maybe wait a bit?

Don’t try and score political points on the back of a dead woman

I agree with this to an extent but I just can't stop thinking about those two sisters who were found by their family in the park where they were last seen despite being reported missing the day before. Not miles away, not buried or hidden, no city-wide or even borough-wide search needed - in the same park where they were last seen.

It's like everyone in the US who says 'now's not the time to discuss gun control' after yet another mass shooting. When is the time to discuss it? To mention and try to understand this uncomfortable truth - that some women's lives are seen as just more valuable than others?

That said, my heart hurts for Sarah Everard's family and friends tonight, no-one should know that pain.

@DandyMandy what you're saying is not suited to a different thread, it's suited to a fiction section, or possibly the 1950s.

[quote FeminismIsForALLWomen]@DandyMandy what you're saying is not suited to a different thread, it's suited to a fiction section, or possibly the 1950s.[/quote]
How is it? I'm just stating something that I have noticed for a while now.

The statistics are real. The world is much more dangerous for some people. Recognizing that doesn’t mean you believe it is their fault they are hurt.

Dandy Mandy

I don't know where to start with your post.. You say black women and women of other races have never been interested in addressing feminist issues? Sexual violence, DV etc?

All over the world do you mean? Or where?
Every single one of them?

What a silly post.

More white women bashing

If this was in response to my post, I used the example of Nicole Smallman and Bibaa Henry only because it happened just last year and the shameful police investigation stayed with me. But, sadly, there are many examples of this not based on race; those seen as lower class, those with little wealth, single parents, sex workers.

I fully agree with this though - Even if a woman has "privilege" in someway, that will not save her from crime. I think the point OP was making, and certainly the point I was making, was around how people and society respond to that crime. It can be so very different and it really shouldn't be.

Could have been in response to my wiki link as well

The statistics are real. The world is much more dangerous for some people. Recognizing that doesn’t mean you believe it is their fault they are hurt.

I don't think anyone has said that recognising some people are at more risk of harm is the same thing as believing it's their fault. I'm not sure how you arrived there.

This is about people caring less when minorities or marginalised people are harmed because of their position in society.

How is it? I'm just stating something that I have noticed for a while now.

If something you've noticed is that minority women aren't interested in feminism then I don't think you've been paying much attention

DandyMandy
Black women and women of other races chose their race over the fact that they're women. They decided feminism wasn't their fight and now there's all this complaining about "white feminism" even though they get a double whammy of racism and sexism, but they focus on the racism instead of both

Your comment is disgustingly racist. Who are you to speak for Black Women? & Most of the wrangling back and forth about Feminism is between White Women. Women who don't have the intersectionality of racism as well as sexism to contend with.

Black Women can't separate racism from sexism. Ever. Some White women get it and even if they don't, are open to understanding. But clearly - not you.

Yes of course the large majority of us don't identify with Western feminism, why would we? We are constantly othered.

That we are women too tends to be forgotten about when it comes to condoning cyberstalking, open bullying, microaggressions against non-White women. As has been seen (yet again) most recently.

Apart from that - yes a White woman going missing does attract more thorough investigation, more respect for the victim too; the 2 sisters murdered in Trent Park were photographed by a policeman and photos of their mutilated bodies circulated for fun.

Your racist system is neither Black Women's creation, or fault. Don't use a tragic situation to shoehorn in your prejudice.

I live near where a young woman disappeared, lots of us were out looking, yesterday's updates were utterly shocking. It's tragic and so very upsetting.

Do you think we were thinking oh well it's a White woman we don't care? Since according to you we put race, not women first? Do you think we're not scared too? Or aren't part of our local communities? Or that women's rights and safety issues don't concern us too, even if your brand of feminism isn't ours? (& nor does it have to be)

You are proving the othering point by dismissively and deliberately othering Black Women, aren't you?

FFS with some people and dumb, misinformed armchair psychology. At such an inappropriate time, too.

@FeminismIsForALLWomen

I don't think criticising or lamenting individuals thinking that way is reasonable or effective (I think it's an inbuilt, natural way for the brain to work).

It's not. It's a bias, which you can unlearn.

I could see that we could identify with others more widely if society were totally different. But I don’t agree that the reaction to hearing about a tragedy where you could picture yourself in the same situation will be the same to one where you don’t.

But to have people identify more widely we need to change society so that people are connected more widely. You aren’t going to have people identify by only drawing parallels when there is tragedy.

But to have people identify more widely we need to change society so that people are connected more widely. You aren’t going to have people identify by only drawing parallels when there is tragedy.

This is something which marginalised communities talk about a lot, not just when there are tragedies, problem is a lot of people who aren't marginalised don't want to listen to people who aren't like them at any time.

OP look up the Just World Hypothesis

Both this and victim blaming are related to the illusion of control and the attempt to feel safer if you can draw distinction between yourself and those who suffer misfortune or injustice.