Sexism, misogyny or both - EDI

[mrsnibblesisahero]

I'd be interested in thoughts on this. Employer EDI policy lists calls out sexism, which I'm pleased to see, but wondering whether I should ask for misogyny to be in there too. I suppose all sexists are likely to be misogynists - but I'm wondering if it could be argued that something is misogynistic but not sexist and therefore cause a problem. Other things listed are racism, homophobia and transphobia. I agree with all being in there (depending on definition of the last), but if the last is in there should you also have ageism, ableism etc?

I agree with all being in there (depending on definition of the last), but if the last is in there should you also have ageism, ableism etc? Absolutely.

And as you say, it depends on the definitions used. If 'sexism' is used as a way of shutting down any discussion of male pattern violence, something is broken.

What would be an example of something misogynistic but not sexist?

I'm not sure there is one - but I suppose I am wondering if there is a perceived view of sexism as somehow less serious than a phobia. I think that may be the problem though. Or does it mean for some people just comparison to men? So sexism = women aren't as good at that as men, rather than a need for positive discrimination on behalf of women which may be prevented by misogyny.

Sexism refers to both sexes though, not that sexism against men is a regular occurrence. I take it to be that sexism refers to both sexes but misogyny, or my new favourite, gyneohobia, refers to women.

In that case I suppose there would be an argument for having misandry in there too, just to be fair to the men 🙄 so so maybe sexism is best.

There's my useless and circular argument!

I think the term sexism is a bit more accessible, even if people will still disagree about exactly what counts as sexism. I feel like in the context of work, I'd be happy to say "isn't that a bit sexist?", but misogyny feels a much graver and more personal charge to level. I'm not sure the difference between the two is very well understood or agreed upon, either. I may be unwittingly illustrating your point, though!

(Personally I dislike the "phobia" formulations too - I'd prefer "anti-" - but I guess they're part of the language now, for prejudices that have more recently been declared unacceptable. However, in a work context, it would seem more productive in general to address perceived "anti-whatever" policies and actions, than to imply that individuals are "phobic", which as we all know can become a witch hunt)

Agree all protected characteristics should get a look in.

Sexism is the correct term, not misogyny. Misogyny is worse than sexism and involves actual mens rea- or intent to do harm. Many things are sexist and do harm to women without there being the slightest ill intention, and sometimes even good intentions can be sexist. Say for example, thinking new mothers are too stressed to take on challenging projects at work so give them the easier ones and let them coast. It’s got a good intention, keeping a mother in workforce and helping her balance work with sleepless infant crying nights. But it does harm their careers in the long run and is insidiously sexist.

If you ask for sexism to be replaced with misogyny, then a lot of seemingly well intentioned sexist stuff would be given a crate Blanche to continue.

Good point @PlanDeRaccordement, wouldn't want it to replace, was thinking about addition.

Doesn’t really make sense as addition because all misogyny is sexism, even though not all sexism reaches the level of misogyny. So misogyny is already covered in the statement.

It would be like asking white supremacism to be added when all white supremacism is racism but not all racism is white supremacism.

I think I agree. I just can't get away from the idea that the term 'sexism' makes it seem less serious somehow than homophobia and transphobia. I think that is a problem with the -phobia word though rather than the -ism.