Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Where are kids learning about gender and sexuality?

54 replies

Strikemepink · 09/03/2021 08:06

I’m aware of a child who turned 13 just over a month ago who didn’t have Facebook / Reddit etc until 13, but are clearly involved in TRA stuff (using that language, trans and other sexuality flags etc)

It’s entirely possible they were reading but not engaging online previously but where would they gain access to this info otherwise? What upsets me most is the apparent support from their parents. Surely this is a safeguarding issue? 13 year olds talking sex and gender with god knows who online.

I don’t know why I’m posting, I’m just frustrated with it and want to protect this young person but I don’t think any message from me to the parent would be well received.

These poor kids.

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 09/03/2021 11:34

I think you captured it. You are not the parent. It is not an issue for you. It doesn't affect you. Kid should be open to explore and not feel constrained by gender and patriarchal structures - and no-one is going to start prescribing them blockers or HRT post High Court. So you can rest easy and focus on your own life rather than make the kid's life miserable through enforcing cultural stereotypes.

Having watched discussions between young teenagers, this is a concern and while the parents may not appreciate a message, Strikeme if you have a child that is friends with this teen you have a right to be concerned. I saw some pretty horrific CSA being pushed as a 'funny story' from one girl to the rest of the group. The girl told everyone it was written with her new friends on discord.... and it read like no teenage girl would even think of. This was adult driven.

The constant stream of aggressive social justice messages has ended up causing a split in the group in the end which has impacted on the mental health of the girls now excluded.

Hopefully these kids will be more enlightened and push for a greater equality amongst the sexes and society. All in all a good thing!

Not sure how you see this working. But obviously you feel that there is no conflict at all between women's right and other groups. Even in sport, women's representation, prisons, refuges?

I do hope that you are right though. I have also now watched those girls who have been excluded become a little more interested in their rights and just how extreme people saying they are fighting for one group (ie. not those fighting to uphold women's rights) are becoming.

They were absolutely horrified at the Paris protest on the weekend for instance.

WarriorN · 09/03/2021 11:35

I was concerned recently that someone posting in an RSE teaching group was asking for gender resources for outside schools. So when it was pointed out there's new guidance they said, it's ok it's for something outside school.

So I imagine youth clubs or guides etc? Could be peddling it.

WarriorN · 09/03/2021 11:36

(Not saying guides do this but I don't know what guidance non school kids services use.)

lucylucky1977 · 09/03/2021 11:59

Those saying “you are not the parent” - so women should just shut up if they are concerned about children? Seriously? What a ridiculous statement. This affects us all and it affects our daughters. But hey that doesn’t matter does it? Wave a flag and pretend you are inclusive and woke and everything will be sparkly and happy and unicorns in these kids futures won’t it? How asleep are you?

lucylucky1977 · 09/03/2021 12:03

@Beamur

Saying that no previous generation has pushed for equality is frankly insulting and very poorly informed. You need to talk to your kids about everything, in an age appropriate way, all the time. Don't wait for them to tell you what they know. I think the best skills we can give our children are to think deeply and critically about things. I want my DD to have her own thoughts and opinions but I don't want her to be led by the nose with herd behaviour.
Exactly this. This generation of girls will turn around and say “where were you?” And what will all the rainbow pushing parents say? “I didn’t know it was harmful to you!”
Branleuse · 09/03/2021 12:10

The internet. You can put as many family safe filters as you like, but they dont block tiktok, reddit, discord, youtube, insta.

Branleuse · 09/03/2021 12:10

Also doesnt restrict what kids say to each other

Erkrie · 09/03/2021 12:15

Hopefully these kids will be more enlightened and push for a greater equality amongst the sexes and society

We already did. I am of the generation pushing for gay rights and equality of sexes. However the concept of gender instead of sex is deeply homophobic, it is also damaging to women and children. This is not progress.

Beamur · 09/03/2021 12:15

As an aside to this - perhaps to illustrate the speed of dissemination, there is chatter about 'superstraight' etc already on the teen channels..

Helleofabore · 09/03/2021 12:27

I want my DD to have her own thoughts and opinions but I don't want her to be led by the nose with herd behaviour.

So true. We are very focused on using critical thinking to work through misinformation in our family and looking to balance information.

My teen blithely informed me that binders were only like corsets and there was no danger. Their friends were asking around for others to accept delivery since their friends couldn't have them delivered at home.

I went through what a binder actually was and how it worked and asked them why groups like mermaids had to issue guidance for use in hot weather if there was no danger. And what did breast tissue would look like after a few years of being bound. (I did not discuss other negative side effects such as fungal infections and damage to ribs etc) They went away and thought about it and did some research. Recently, they have acknowledged that binders are by no means harmless and are a problem.

We disagree on many issues, so they are not backward in stating something they believe in.

Helleofabore · 09/03/2021 12:27

I think those who think that young teens searching for information online and talking online in chat rooms is ok, maybe don't have young teens, or if they do, maybe they should check with their young teens as to what they are up to online. But, with girls there is such a huge aspect of peer pressure to the dissemination of these issues. THAT is what is the concern.

And once they are in their LGBTIA+ group of friends, that pressure to conform can be incredibly high if you are someone who has been constantly bullied for non-conforming in the past. For constantly having unkind remarks about how 'uncool' you are etc.

If you actually listen to many detransitioners who are young women, they will tell how that need for acceptance shapes their view. Many recount how if they tried to question, they were ostracised by the one group who they had felt accepted in.

So, no! This is a concern for ALL parents. Anyone trying to minimise the impact of spreading misinformation via social media to young teens may well be the uninformed ones.

lucylucky1977 · 09/03/2021 12:41

Anyone trying to minimise the spreading of misinformation is complicit and contributing to the emotional and psychological suffering of young girls. Where is the common sense?

Beamur · 09/03/2021 12:46

I'd add to that, that it's impossible in these groups to disagree. Even luke warm responses get pulled up. They self-police and reinforce quite tightly.

Wandawomble · 09/03/2021 13:28

Handing DD who is in first year of high school my phone so she can type what she is seeing in her friend groups.

  • hi, I’m in the first year of high school, and I’ve noticed a lot of this stuff happen to the friend group I was in. I just wanted to say first that my mom taught me about the LGB when I was younger and I have a gay godfather so I don’t have any issues with any of that, but that’s completely different from the stuff that happened to all the girls I knew.

So I grew up in a culture of tolerance and acceptance, but these are the kind of things that started happening. When my friends were about nine, they all started talking about “dating” everyone, and then they were doing that. I actually wasn’t bothered with joining them in what they did, but I still had to listen to them talking about it. A while later, when we were around 10, one of the girls i knew (let’s just say A) was asking us if we’d ever had crushes on other girls. I think after that A was looking at all the stuff about being “pansexual” even though we were 10.

When we were 11, A and the rest of the girls in that group started talking about being “pan” and other things like that. I was also being asked if I had been abused before, and even now thinking about that question my “friend” asked me makes me feel sick. Another girl, B, was watching weird anime videos. Not just normal animation of that genre but the really disgusting maid outfit stuff. Soon they all were obsessed with it, and they were reading this really weird manga which was just gross. And the whole time their parents weren’t realising that it was like that because they just saw the anime stuff as a “kid-friendly cartoon”.

When we went to high school it got worse. They spent all their time looking at the gross videos, and B came into school multiple times wearing maid outfits and stuff like that. A then starting identifying as “non-binary” (she also had a relative who started identifying as something a few weeks before) and was asking other people to declare their pronouns. She also met this weird boy, who was really creepy, and they’d both look at really disgusting webcomics of people making out and stuff, and it just made me feel sick. A also started watching this anime series on Netflix called Beastars, which is about humanoid animals making out and eating each other at the same time and she says “she really liked” the series, even though the whole show was about the guy doing stuff to the girl while beating her. The boy I mentioned earlier and A would also constantly talk about how much they hated J.K. Rowling for being a huge “transphobic peice of crap” (aka. Standing up for women) and would say that trans people were the most oppressed people on earth, and that they were “having to go through what women went through all those years ago” as if it isn’t still happening.
Meanwhile B was talking about being “Animesexual” which I didn’t even think could be a thing because it’s so stupid it doesn’t even make any sense whatsoever, and wearing maid outfits to school and heavily coating her face in makeup to look like Belle Delphine, an Internet personality who’s famous for making disgusting content. It was also worth noting that A’s mom was boasting about A being “pan” and seemed to think her child being “interesting” made herself more interesting.
I also met a girl in my class who seemed like a nice normal person, but then she started reading fanfic in class. She started saying she was a “gay man” and a furry.

Another thing I would like to mention, is about my stepsister. She’s 4 years younger than me, but she’s had access to the web since she was 5. She had a game on her phone called gacha life, that’s notorious for having a horrible fanbase and people use it to create the kind of pervy stuff the girls I mentioned before were all looking at. She also had a social media app called popjam that’s meant to be kid-friendly but the stuff she was doing was far from that. A boy she met who was a year younger that me and was one of my friends at school (although he was annoying), also had an account that he didn’t use anymore. My stepsister became obsessed with him and started Making posts on the gacha life game of him and her kissing and stuff. She also “adopted a child” (who was another user) with him, basically saying she was in a family with a random person she didn’t know. She also did that with other people she didn’t know, saying she was in families, and even love triangles. She was told to not flirt with people online and she said herself that she’d stop, but she lied and did it worse than before.

Eventually, she stopped using popjam and started playing Roblox, an online platform for players to upload their own games for the world to play. I’ve been using it since I was eight, but I’d never want to online date anyone. My stepsister started doing that right away, and saying she was depressed, self harming, pregnant, and wanting an abusive relationship. She’s kinda obsessed with relationship stuff because she’s seen so much of it online. She was also joining depression groups, and a few lgbtq ones as well. And this is ALL because of games that look like they’re kid-friendly. She’s been banned from using roblox at her dad’s but not at her mom’s. that doesn’t stop her from looking at weird stuff on her laptop which she uses for school.

I want mothers to know this stuff, because as a kid in this world, I’m experiencing this first hand and don’t want anyone else to have to deal with this, whether that’s getting a sibling off the internet when parents won’t listen, or feeling stressed about having to declare pronouns at school. Alot of parents won’t talk to their kids about this either. Please be the parents that do.

Helleofabore · 09/03/2021 13:59

Thank you for posting Wandawomble’s DD. You have mentioned many things that are familiar to what I have been told and noticed from my own teen.

And it does start young.

And it affects all the groups and the families too.

And it is a very difficult time to be a tween and a teen. The internet has some excellent benefits, but it also has many negative aspects as you discuss.

It does sound like you have a good relationship with your mum though. And you give some very good advice.

Beamur · 09/03/2021 14:52

Thanks for posting! I think many parents are not aware of how young kids are exposed to some of this stuff. There's some very adult stuff which is very easy to fall into from innocent browsing - anime especially. My DD had a few unpleasant experiences on supposedly kid friendly platforms too - sadly it's all too common.
Good that you are able to talk to your Mum though.

therocinante · 09/03/2021 19:07

Carrying on from that and the way all crazes have a shelf life, has anyone seen any signs that rainbow culture is starting to burn out? If it is I'd imagine it will happen first in areas like Brighton were it originally took off.

Sorry thingybob - do you mean people will get bored of the 'craze' of being gay/lesbian etc? Cos that's a pretty concerning thing to say.

Branleuse · 09/03/2021 19:11

I dont think its going to go away, nor would I want it to, but I do hope the focus goes back to actual gay people at some point

Wandawomble · 10/03/2021 16:55

No one here thinks being Lesbian, Gay, or Bisexual or indeed being trans is a craze. But friend groups of school kids suddenly all saying they are trans? Hmmmm....

Wandawomble · 10/03/2021 16:58

My daughter is sick of the craze of being demanded to announce her pronouns constantly especially when she is in the process of discovering her own sexuality and not having it wrenched out of her by someone waving a rainbow flag and saying to her that "cis het is boring" - which is something her friend group (all trans boys now apparently) did to her.

Liquorishtoffee · 10/03/2021 17:00

Boring? How the heck does what someone does to/with someone else in the privacy of their own bed have anything to you with you?

Wandawomble · 10/03/2021 17:02

Also as a 12 year old at the time, all she did in bed was sleep.

Wandawomble · 10/03/2021 17:03

Like seriously, I was still exploring my sexuality way into my twenties. It's meant to be an exploration not a declaration!

Helleofabore · 10/03/2021 17:05

My daughter is sick of the craze of being demanded to announce her pronouns constantly especially when she is in the process of discovering her own sexuality and not having it wrenched out of her by someone waving a rainbow flag and saying to her that "cis het is boring" - which is something her friend group (all trans boys now apparently) did to her.

There is a need to not ever be 'boring' isn't there....

I have recommended to my teen to be the 'deep and mysterious'. It hasn't really worked because the peer pressure to fit into a label is so very strong with those previously bullied for their differences.

MsFogi · 10/03/2021 17:09

School - so much rubbish being taught to them at school in PSHE and Personal Development lessons.
Then they get into an echo chamber on TikTok, Instagram and with friends.
I would encourage all parents to check their school's RSE/PSHE policy against the latest government guidance and also ask their dcs' schools which external providers they use for RSE and PSHE (useful guides can be found on the Safe Schools Alliance and Transgender Trend websites. Please please contact the school (head of safeguarding (teacher and governor), head of year, head teacher and governors) if your school's policy is not in line with the latest guidelines and also complain about use of lobby groups as external providers (as well as asking about due diligence that has been performed). Schools and governors really, really need to know parents care about what their children are being taught and by whom.