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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Gender identity versus other bits of your identity

5 replies

Belleende · 07/03/2021 10:33

I have been engaging more and more in the gender critical versus TRA debate, which I very much thank MN for allowing to continue on this site. SPOILER ALERT Iam very much gender critical.

On one of the threads recently started by a TRA, they were repeatedly asked to define a woman, and couldn't come up with anything that wasn't entirely circular and/or based on how someone identifies.

Many women on the thread said they had no gender identity. It is a question I have never asked of myself, largely I think because I don't find it helpful or useful to me in any way. I tend to really think about the aspects of my personality / identity that are useful or problematic or both.

If I have a gender identity I can't say I recognise it as such and certainly don't care enough to fight for it to take precedent over other aspects of myself or others. Being misgendered would certainly not cause me any pain or internal conflict.

This caused me to ask what facets of my identity/personality do I really value and that if invalidated would cause me some anguish.

The first aspect I thought of was that I form my world view via critical thinking based on the best evidence available. I don't subscribe to religion, or spiritualism or other belief based systems. I am a scientist by training. I actively seek debate with people with different experiences and views. I trust empirical evidence more than logic and theory. Data is vital to inform thinking, and what follows from that e.g. Legislation.

If I was forced to accept a view that ignored empirical evidence and was based on a belief system instead, then I would struggle with this immensely.

This is one of the reasons I struggle so much with the concept of transwomen being no different to biological women. There is no evidence to show that an adult human can change sex. Being expected to park my rational brain and believe that people can change sex is asking me to deny a part of my identity that is fundamental to me and who I am. It sets up a cognitive dissonance in me that I just can't reconcile.

Is this equivalent to people feeling their gender identity is not entirely validated by society? Is gender identity more important than other aspects of identity? (I am not even going to attempt to define gender identity as I can't find anything that isn't based on what I think of as old fashioned stereotypes).

What part of your identity do you most value

OP posts:
AdHominemNonSequitur · 07/03/2021 11:07

I feel exactly the same as you and have wondered if the cognitive dissonance I feel when asked to go along with something nonsense is similar to gender dysphoria.

I don't think it is an identity though.

I am not really sure what a identity is. I can't help but feel that identity is just ego identification with something. I'm not sure it should be encouraged in any walk of life.

For me standing up to this (when let's be honest it would be easier to go along with it) is a moral imperative. Truth and reality versus social pressure and ideology.

If I start to feel too much doubt, I re squint myself with Queer Theory and postmodern texts and remember what is really driving this.

AdHominemNonSequitur · 07/03/2021 11:09

*Re squint should be re-aquaint. Damn autocucumber.

LongPauseNoAnswer · 07/03/2021 11:13

When it comes to anything remotely packaged as female gender identity (yes I know female is sex but I’m trying to capture everything under the umbrella), it is always deeply and insultingly misogynistic.

I am a woman with no gender identity. What makes me a woman is my biological sex. Every else is my personality.

JediGnot · 21/04/2021 15:42

[Man Here] My identity is pretty much 100% personal. I am JediGnot (not really)! I am a blokey bloke in many respects (beer, football, aggressive music), but then again I have a bit of a feminine side (I have performed in a dress, and worn heavy make up and a feminine fake fur jacket on many nights out.)

I do identify as a man, and think that I have something (bliological sex and certain gender stereotypes) in common with most men, in a way that I don't with most women. But then again there are plenty of women whose tastes and politics are like mine, and men who are the complete opposite of me. But I identify as a man because it is a simple fact, just like I identify as left-of-centre, anti-racist, white, balding, not as slim as I'd like.

But yeah, "man" is probably less important as part of my identity than as a supporter of my favourite football team, or my identity as a left wing music lover.

The more I think and read the more "sex vs gender" appears to really mean "facts vs outdated, dangerous sex-based stereotypes."

Pudmyboy · 17/05/2021 20:42

I am a woman with no gender identity. What makes me a woman is my biological sex. Every else is my personality I like this @LongPauseNoAnswer !

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