Bristol strip club ban

[Aha85]

I'm really hoping this goes ahead. The strip found aren't happy.

www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/strip-club-ban-bristol-would-5079319

This argument from the strip clubs is particularly odd:

"Nil-cap is a LGBTQ+ phobic policy as it discriminates against Queer people who go to these venues."

No dancers don't sell their bodies. What a horribly misogynistic thing to say.

I’ve linked to an example of credible up to date research and pointed out some of its limitations. If anyone’s got credible research that points to something else they want to highlight, maybe they could do the same..?

Well I think it would be difficult to get any real data if you're going to conflate all those vastly different activities.

With strip clubs, I think you'd be best to speak to groups or unions that represent them. I would absolutely welcome research into ALL those activities. I think there is a world of difference to dancing on a stage in a licenced club, with CCTV, an employment contract, security, checks on age and immigration; and meeting random strangers in hotel rooms. I think many of the things on that list ARE very damaging and exploitative, I just don't agree strip clubs are one of them.

@CuntAmongstThePigeons

Well I think it would be difficult to get any real data if you're going to conflate all those vastly different activities.

With strip clubs, I think you'd be best to speak to groups or unions that represent them. I would absolutely welcome research into ALL those activities. I think there is a world of difference to dancing on a stage in a licenced club, with CCTV, an employment contract, security, checks on age and immigration; and meeting random strangers in hotel rooms. I think many of the things on that list ARE very damaging and exploitative, I just don't agree strip clubs are one of them.

Agreed.

The conflation of strip clubs with illegal prostitution is very telling, and says a lot about those doing it and their opinion of the women invovled.

So called feminists view women they don't approve of in a worse way than the men they claim to be 'protecting' them from.

The feminist argument is not about telling young women what's best for them. What I'm talking about is the halo effect that strip clubs have on other women and girls. I used to live opposite a strip club and it was horrible walking past there (which I did every day) and at nighttime it was actually quite scary. There would be men hanging around smoking outside the door looking extremely intimidating and often making sexualised comments.

We had this same argument about page 3 where the other side were all "why are you taking jobs away from working class young women? Why are you trying to tell other women what to do?". It's not about the handful of women doing page 3, it's about the effect it has on the other 30 million plus women living in this country.

@sagaLoren

The feminist argument is not about telling young women what's best for them. What I'm talking about is the halo effect that strip clubs have on other women and girls. I used to live opposite a strip club and it was horrible walking past there (which I did every day) and at nighttime it was actually quite scary. There would be men hanging around smoking outside the door looking extremely intimidating and often making sexualised comments.

We had this same argument about page 3 where the other side were all "why are you taking jobs away from working class young women? Why are you trying to tell other women what to do?". It's not about the handful of women doing page 3, it's about the effect it has on the other 30 million plus women living in this country.

Sounds like the club you described was pretty poorly run. The management of any decent place wouldn't allow that kind of street harassment, as it obviously gives the club a bad name.

CC isnt like that and never has been. One strike and your barred is the order of the day. Makes for a happy club, happy workers, happy neighbours and happy customers.

Don't tar everyone with one bad experience you have had please.

I do see the argument you're making. But the p3 was in a national newspaper that children were exposed to. I agree that the pornification of society has a horrible drip drip effect on women.

I disagree with sexualised advertising in general. But clubs that are operating as adult only venues I dont have an issue with, I find drunk men to be horrible generally not just the ones who go to strip clubs. Your experience with the smoking area of a strip club is the same as mine at any number of the outside smoking areas of normal bars near me. Sexual harassment is never ok and we need to address the entitlement that men feel in doing that. But in my experience that's not limited to men outside strip clubs. I would campaign for strip clubs to better manage their effect on local areas if there are drunk men harassing women outside a strip club that's quite patently not on. I'm not sure closing the strip club is the answer though.

I may be one of the minority it seems in wanting strip clubs being closed, be they women ogled by men, men ogled by women or any other combination. I don't accept the 'driving underground' argument for strip clubs, much as it may apply to banning other activities.

I see the bat signal went out over night.

It's always interesting how poorly the pro punter lobbyists argue their case. The more they protest , the weaker their case gets.

@peak2021

I may be one of the minority it seems in wanting strip clubs being closed, be they women ogled by men, men ogled by women or any other combination. I don't accept the 'driving underground' argument for strip clubs, much as it may apply to banning other activities.

You're not in a minority; it's just a couple of vociferous posters pushing a very weak argument.

@CuntAmongstThePigeons

No dancers don't sell their bodies. What a horribly misogynistic thing to say.

They absolutely do. Removing your clothes in order to sexually excite others is selling your body. How else would you describe it?

So peak is your end goal a stop to all strip clubs, you believe there is no place for sexualised dance entertainment?

Women have been punished for any expression of sexuality for centuries. The madonna and whore dichotomy is still strong in society. You may not agree with it but many women enjoy and feel energised, empowered, seen by tapping into their sexual energy.

Women who are proud of their skills dancing should not be punished by society.

So do ballet dancers and gymnasts sell their bodies? Is it the physical aspect or the lack of clothing? Naked bodies have been the subject of art for thousands of years.

Also I'm not sure about the bat signal. I've been here for donkeys years, I post on lots of the women's rights threads. There's only one other poster agreeing with me isn't there? We're still in the minority on this thread. Which is fine.

@CuntAmongstThePigeons

So do ballet dancers and gymnasts sell their bodies? Is it the physical aspect or the lack of clothing? Naked bodies have been the subject of art for thousands of years.

Men don't go to watch ballet or gymnastics in order to get a sexual thrill, or at least not overtly! They don't do it naked. Stop with the pathetic dogwhistle.

What about women who use male strippers, or go and see Chippendale type shows? Equally deserving of your disgust?

@TheImber

What about women who use male strippers, or go and see Chippendale type shows? Equally deserving of your disgust?

Ooh what a gotcha- yes you win with that argument.

But seriously do you really think posters who want to ban strip clubs are happy to accept male strippers?

As an aside has it escaped your notice that male strip clubs patronised by leering women don't actually exist?

I'm not sure how asking questions is a dog whistle. I genuinely don't see the difference. Men go to see the beauty of a naked female form dancing. Not just men, lots of the customers are women. I really dont understand how you can look at the history of art and how fundamental nudity and movement are to art.

That's not to say that some men go hoping for sexual favours, but that's a reflection of the club management not the dancers working there.

@CuntAmongstThePigeons

So peak is your end goal a stop to all strip clubs, you believe there is no place for sexualised dance entertainment?

Women have been punished for any expression of sexuality for centuries. The madonna and whore dichotomy is still strong in society. You may not agree with it but many women enjoy and feel energised, empowered, seen by tapping into their sexual energy.

Women who are proud of their skills dancing should not be punished by society.

What utter nonsense. Strip clubs are part of the madonna / whore dichotomy - they don't push against it- the rely on its existence.

And as for "dancing skills" - I don't know how you can keep a straight face posting that. Do you seriously believe for one second the punters are there for the "dancing skills" ?

Men go to see the beauty of a naked female form dancing

Oh ha, ha.

“What about women who use male strippers, or go and see Chippendale type shows? Equally deserving of your disgust?”

I think it’s grim. The power dynamic is different, but it’s still grim.

@MissBarbary

Men go to see the beauty of a naked female form dancing

Oh ha, ha.

Have you ever spoken to a single women who has ever worked in a strip club?

“Women have been punished for any expression of sexuality for centuries”

Oh and I don’t think this is about the expression of female sexuality at all. It wouldn’t have a price on it if it was- this is about male sexuality.

@TheMarzipanDildo

“What about women who use male strippers, or go and see Chippendale type shows? Equally deserving of your disgust?”

I think it’s grim. The power dynamic is different, but it’s still grim.

How is the power dynamic 'different?'

A person is still paying another to entertain them with sexual titillation.

Whats the issue?

Fair enough Barbary, that's your view. However many women enjoy dancing and enjoy the style of pole dancing. I'm unsure why they should not be allowed to do so, to me that appears to be part of the madonna/whore dichotomy. A woman dancing in a leotard is fine, a woman dancing in underwear on a pole, not fine. That also seems to be quite judgemental class wise. Ballet is a high art form, pole dancing is a low one. Both require huge skill and strength and are beautiful to watch.

Ironically many ballet dancers go to work in strip clubs after they're ballet career has ended.