Disturbing Surrogacy Front pager from Ireland this afternoon

[Womansisterdaughtermother]

m.independent.ie/news/i-have-some-small-bit-of-justice-for-aoife-husband-whose-wife-died-from-cervical-cancer-to-use-settlement-money-to-have-child-through-surrogacy-40159565.html

Hi amazing women of Mumsnet. I have been reading here voraciously for more than two yrs. I have learnt so much. I am frankly wowed on a daily basis by the insight, knowledge, decency and generosity on this board 🙏. The post above is my first one.

Thanks for posting this, you beat me to it!

A very sad story but one that should not end with this man getting want he wants due to tragic circumstances.

I would recommend reading this, the Lady Hale judgement has perhaps set a precedent that will not end well for women, children and the NHS.

www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2020/06/63958/

I'd like to recommend that all women freezing their eggs/embryos make a VERY detailed Will regarding what should happen should they die.

Hi OhHolyJesus... What a depressing situation!! Excellent article though. I am relieved to see there are people within the LGBT movement who are prepared to publicly articulate their thoughts on surrogacy so well. Thanks v much for sharing. The word ominous in it captures my sentiment about the Indo article perfectly.....
Between this and the recent coverage Rosanna Davison's surrogacy journey got, I can see this creeping normalisation of surrogacy growing here.

There are currently three different surrogacy threads on FWR, relating to different stories/aspects.

Altogether they add up to one thing. Women are just breeders now.
Not sure if it even requires women to "be kind" anymore. Stand and deliver more like.

Good point Purple

I'm not sure that would make any difference though? It would be interesting to see how laws compare from the U.K. to the States. You can't chose who your eggs go to for example, so I don't know if that would apply to embryos. I have read about enthusiasm being 'adopted' (both on the article about the three men/throuple who adopted an embryo of a friend/colleague and in an article from a Christian group.)

You can chose to have your frozen embryos donated to research, stored for your own use at cost or be "left to perish" in the U.K.

He can argue that he has 'ownership' as he is the 'father' but this doesn't give him automatic rights to a woman being implanted, growing the child and giving birth.

It's a terribly sad story but I would have preferred to see him challenge his energies into campaigning for access to abortion in Ireland (new clinics, since the law has since changed) or for awareness around cervical cancer.

I do genuinely worry about any child born through surrogacy for him to raise and to his dead wife being the genetic mother.

This is obviously a tragic story but I am a bit confused. It says he wants to use the damages to pay for surrogacy but commercial surrogacy is illegal in the UK (and I think in Ireland too). So what - he's going to break the law? Or he thinks he'll outsource this to a poor woman in a developing country who doesn't have any state protection? Or maybe the money will pay for his ticket to Gilead?

Gilead, California - or maybe New York as commercial surrogacy has just been legalised and it closer. Less money in flights, more money for twins perhaps.

Lady Hale compensated Mrs X for similar reasons so effectively funding what is illegal here by outsourcing it to women elsewhere.

Unless he waits for commercial surrogacy to be made legal in U.K./Ireland which we know is looking quite likely...

Unless he waits for commercial surrogacy to be made legal in U.K./Ireland which we know is looking quite likely...

Well my hope is that we've built enough of a resurgent feminist movement in the UK that we could potentially fight this. I would happily take to the streets with an "Under his eye" banner (or send another thousand emails to my MP).

Surrogacy is modern day slavery for both mother and child.
It should be banned.
This is my no debate subject

I think he's going to use a surrogate in the US. The embryos are currently in Czech Republic.

It's a tragic story but surely his wife wouldn't want a baby to exist if she didn't get to mother it. Bad enough she had to abort their IVF baby to pursue chemotherapy only to due a year later.

Mine too. Companies getting rich out of hiring out women's wombs. It will suit them very well for the language describing women to become increasingly biological. Womb havers don't matter as much as real humans.

That was in response to SorryAuntLydia

& one of the headlines on RTE news. It’s crazy, national broadcaster promoting surrogacy

@TheRabbitOfCaerbannog

Mine too. Companies getting rich out of hiring out women's wombs. It will suit them very well for the language describing women to become increasingly biological. Womb havers don't matter as much as real humans.

Agreed. The dehamanising language deliberately obfuscates the practice of using women's bodies as commodities.

The dehamanising language deliberately obfuscates the practice of using women's bodies as commodities.

So what do we do about it?

Get writing to any and all media outlets that use 'surrogate' without mother.

Write to your MP, this is a useful template.

nordicmodelnow.org/2020/05/15/ask-your-mp-to-take-action-on-the-law-commissions-surrogacy-proposals/

More on the Law Commission and their of since closed) consultation here

objectnow.org/sneaking-surrogacy-into-law/

For newcomers to surrogacy I share these previous threads.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3909725-Ukraine-surrogacy-trade

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3910223-Babies-stranded-in-Ukraine

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3952991-Media-Coverage-of-Surrogacy-is-biased-AIBU?pg=2

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3606313-The-Rumplestiltskin-Law

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3782983-surrogacy-resource-thread-please-post-your-links-here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3474712-law-commission-review-of-surrogacy-laws-just-streamlining

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3424290-Law-Commission-consulting-on-paid-surrogacy-in-the-UK

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3622892-Law-Commission-Consultation-on-Surrogacy

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3855758-Surrogacy-Consultation-Update

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3613356-All-male-Law-Commission-discussing-surrogacy

OhHolyJesus... It is indeed dehumanising to refer to the mother in such an instance as "a surrogate",somehow reminds me of "a dishwasher" or "an electric car". If I were to write to a media outlet complaining, would my letter be published in the "Letters" page? .. Or do complaints end up elsewhere? So far my activism has involved speaking up at a union committee meeting about the union's newly adopted pronouns policy.... Adopted without member consultation!
. Also writing to hse about the cervical cancer advice that omitted the word woman. Thanks for attaching the absolute wealth of links above to this thread.

There was another case wasn't there. A woman lost her fertility through a botched op or medical negligence and won in the courts for the NHS to fund surrogacy in the US
I can't remember all the details

@TwoBreakingIntoOne see the link just under the OP for more on that.

Oops sorry

A lot of pain all around. I do feel awful for a grieving widower. I just can't accept though that an answer to loss is using another woman's body. What if her pregnancy went badly or she miscarried? To me that would be additional tragedies as both scenarios are more likely with surrogate pregnancies. I can't see taking those risks would mitigate his pain...I really don't.

No worries Two it's an important case in relation to this one...

I was thinking about that too Delphinium, though time has passed for him to grieve, though it never goes away, if he were to find a woman do carry the frozen embryos for him and should she miscarry the grief for that and his wife could tip you over the edge and of course the surrogate mother would feel immense guilt.

It's incredibly risky and fraught with stress and that in turn could affect a foetus/pregnancy.

I was reminded of Diane Blood's case and the successful bid to use her dead husband's sperm and the more recent case of Ellie Anderson's mother wanting to do something similar.

These cases do highlight the ethics around a dead persons gametes and frozen embryos and how it all ties in with a woman and her reproductive system being needed. At least in Blood's case it was her own.

"New legislation is required to protect the rights of children in cases of donor-assisted human reproduction (DAHR) and surrogacy, a new report has recommended.

The government has published a review by Professor Conor O’Mahony, special rapporteur on child protection, of children’s rights and best interests in the context of DAHR and surrogacy in Irish law.

A legislative framework for DAHR was introduced with the Children and Family Relationships Act 2015 while surrogacy remains entirely unregulated in Irish law.

Professor O’Mahony’s 51-page report makes a number of legislative recommendations, including amendments to the 2015 Act to address a number of anomalies arising in respect of the recognition of family relationships in cases where children were born following DAHR procedures.

The report also calls for “comprehensive legislation regulating surrogacy”, which it says “should provide that the best interests of the child are the first and paramount consideration for all bodies (including courts and regulatory authorities) exercising functions under the legislation”.

www.irishlegal.com/article/legislation-needed-to-protect-children-s-rights-in-cases-of-assisted-reproduction-and-surrogacy

The 51 page report can be downloaded here

www.gov.ie/en/publication/3e601-a-review-of-childrens-rights-and-best-interests-in-the-context-of-donorassisted-human-reproa-review-of-childrens-rights-and-best-interests-in-the-context-of-donor-assisted-human-reproduction-and-surrogacy-in-irish-law-duction-and-surrogacy-in-irish-law/