What does 'assigned male at birth' actually mean??

[Neversleepingever]

Can't find a transgender board to post on.

I watched this ASAP science video:
vm.tiktok.com/ZMe6bhVBt/

Full length version:

I found it really interesting because it explains gender dysphoria linking to the brain. But then they go into say 'trans women, despite being assigned male at birth, have a smaller hypothalamus'

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN!? Who assigns all these babies at birth!? What jargan is this? If you're born with a penis, you have male sex organs. Therefore you're biologically male. However you can be any gender you want because gender is a social construct, no?

I think this originally meant "assigned to the male gender at birth". i.e. "It's a boy! Therefore we will call him George, keep his hair short, dress him in trousers and send him to football classes".

Perhaps this is an overly charitable interpretation.

Though I think it boils down to nonsense regardless.

But then they go into say 'trans women, despite being assigned male at birth, have a smaller hypothalamus'

Can we have a scientific citation for this as a fact and can we separate it from social influences rather than genetic?

Also, last time I checked we weren't routinely scanning the brains of new born babies to determine how what role they will take in sexually reproducing.

I'm not convinced that your brain plays a physical role in the mechanics of making a baby but then perhaps my biology books need burning as transphobic.

So if someone identifies as a trans woman, but doesn't have a smaller hypothalamus, are they not really a trans woman?

It's a term historically used for the tiny tiny number of babies born with differences of sex development who's sex was incorrectly determined at birth, usually due to ambiguous genitals.

Trans activists have appropriated it to push their "born in the wrong body" agenda, much to the disgust of many DSD orgs who don't want their distressing medical conditions used as a gotcha to "prove" that sex is a spectrum and men can be women if they say so.

I thought this phrase was appropriated from the experience of people with DSDs, who in the past before better diagnosis were sometimes 'assigned' wrongly.

But most babies are totally unambiguous, their sex is observed at birth, or sometimes before if there's been a chromosome check. The fact that then society 'assigns a gender' is something GC people generally object to.

Is that the bit of the brain that responds to trauma ? There is certainly one bit of the brain which is altered by some kinds of stress/trauma that women experience more than men , and there is a suggestion that many trans people have had similar experiences
Luke London cabbies, the brain alters in response to environment

In other words some environment affected changes are detected more commonly in female and trans brains than in ( and I think the adjective heterosexual could be applied also ) male brains

@DeaconBoo

So if someone identifies as a trans woman, but doesn't have a smaller hypothalamus, are they not really a trans woman?

Gay men also have a smaller hypothalamus compared to straight male controls, similar to females. It does not mean they are women, though. It is irrelevant to sex. It seems that men have greater diversity in hypothalamus size!

So the video just a croc of shit basically?

@Neversleepingever

So the video just a croc of shit basically?

Yep.

Unscientific piggy backing of intersex issue for the benefit and marketing of trans ideolgy.

It has no basis in reality.

But then they go into say 'trans women, despite being assigned male at birth, have a smaller hypothalamus'

I'm not convinced that studies of transexuals or gay men in the 70s and 80s can be mapped onto the large number of people who are now included under the trans umbrella, or the increasing number of people who now identify as bisexual.

What is being shown? that there is a test for being trans or gay? That a particularly trait cannot exist in both men and women because it is more common in one sex than the other?

@merrymouse

But then they go into say 'trans women, despite being assigned male at birth, have a smaller hypothalamus'

I'm not convinced that studies of transexuals or gay men in the 70s and 80s can be mapped onto the large number of people who are now included under the trans umbrella, or the increasing number of people who now identify as bisexual.

What is being shown? that there is a test for being trans or gay? That a particularly trait cannot exist in both men and women because it is more common in one sex than the other?

It would be interesting to know if there are more recent and wider ranging studies, wouldn't it?

@DeaconBoo

So if someone identifies as a trans woman, but doesn't have a smaller hypothalamus, are they not really a trans woman?

That's the thorny issue of self-ID nipped in the bud then...

Even with DSDs, isn't it is used in a very particular way. It's not the same as a baby being mistakenly identified as female, say, when actually male.

I thought it was used when they knew a baby was male but chose to raise it as female, which as far as I know isn't really done any more as it proved to be a bad idea.

So even less apllicable to trans situations.

@bourbonne

I think this originally meant "assigned to the male gender at birth". i.e. "It's a boy! Therefore we will call him George, keep his hair short, dress him in trousers and send him to football classes".

Perhaps this is an overly charitable interpretation.

Though I think it boils down to nonsense regardless.

Much of the fighting about trans lives and rights seems to be around pedantic arguing and disassembling of words for no reason. Here's a great example. Its pretty obvious what it means especially in the context it is used.

There is more science no around brains and biology including that transgender brains do not match the structure of the biology that their genitalia would indicate. The thing about the hypothalumus is important during and after puberty when it is most affected by hormones. Young trans people who are allowed to avoid the puberty ( as indicated by what's between their legs ) and then take cross sex hormones develop hypothalmus in line with their identity not their genitals. Experts can identify a trans brain from scans and anonymised data.

I personally get irritated when people ask "what does x mean" when its pretty obvious. So why ask?

I've no idea what any of that's got to do with my post.

Experts can identify a trans brain from scans and anonymised data.

So why isn't such a scan a routine procedure at places like the Tavistock? Would seem to be the answer to avoiding cases like Keira Bell's, no?

Right at the beginning.
"sperm from father"
"Egg from mother"
Isn't that transphobic?

So why isn't such a scan a routine procedure at places like the Tavistock? Would seem to be the answer to avoiding cases like Keira Bell's, no?

What that PP said indicated that the difference came about after medical intervention, not that it existed before. So not actually an inherent characteristic at all.

Experts can identify a trans brain from scans and anonymised data

That's not actually true though.

I think it means that when your sex was observed at birth, so amab means assigned male at birth.
I could be wrong though so don't quote me on that lol

It means your biological sex was male when you were born. It can also mean that your caregivers, doctors etc referred to you as male gender when you were born.

Sex and gender are different things but at birth they generally match, so sex usually = gender for tiny babies, as they don't really have any social construct of gender.

In the case of intersex babies (babies born with both sets of genitalia), sometimes a decision on gender is made one way or the other despite it not being obvious.

I personally get irritated when people ask "what does x mean" when its pretty obvious. So why ask?

You haven't read the thread have you?

Young trans people who are allowed to avoid the puberty ( as indicated by what's between their legs ) and then take cross sex hormones develop hypothalmus in line with their identity not their genitals.

Given the small number of people this would apply to, it's very unlikely that enough data is available to draw general conclusions, or that this could usefully be generalised to the large variety of people included under the trans umbrella.

There is very little agreement on the extent of innate difference between male and female brains and how this might affect development, let alone any consensus on whether a trait that is clearly evident in some male brains is evidence that that person is not male.

Most males are taller than 5'. That does not mean that males who are 5' or under have a 'female' height.

Interesting fact, did you know there are as many intersex people in the UK as there are people with red hair?

It's alarmingly common.

These children are often assigned a gender at birth by doctors/ parents and then socialised into that gender, which can be quite damaging as they can grow up in a gender that doesn't actually match who they feel they are.

Ok, if there is a test then, why would the gender of the brain be given more weight that the sex of the rest of the body? Why would “female brain” outrank “has penis, testicles, Adam’s apple, makes sperm, has XY chromosomes, lays down body fat in male pattern, has male typical pelvic angle” etc etc.

By that light, as I’m six foot, I have a male height, therefore I’m male.

Hurrah! I’ll be over here, waiting for my pay rise.

Or, is it more likely that brains, like height, have metrics that display overlapping ranges between the sexes?

@Mockolate

I think it means that when your sex was observed at birth, so amab means assigned male at birth. I could be wrong though so don't quote me on that lol

'Observed' is the far more accurate term in this context. 'Assigned' means 'allocated'. Babies aren't 'allocated' a sex. It's the wrong word, and it's being used to enforce a false narrative.