Is Mother now a Gender Neutral Term Following the Lords Announcement? Trans Peeps think so!

[MishyJDI]

Is Mother now a Gender Neutral Term Following the Lords Announcement? Trans Peeps think so! Came across this piece doing the rounds, with the main proposition being:

The final legislation is said to use “pregnant mothers” instead, this is perfectly in-line with the legal definition of “mothers”. This because an unintended side effect of making the legal definition of the word “mothers” include transgender men and non-binary people is that now, in a legal sense, “mothers” is a gender neutral term.

This issue was cemented when Freddy McConnell took the UK to the High Court and subsequently the Court of Appeals and did not manage to win the case. Freddy, who is a transgender man that gave birth, wanted to be registered as the father on the birth certificate rather than mother. He lost his case because the UK argued “mother” isn’t a gendered term and refers to any person who grows a child in their womb."

Well....not sure on the response to this to be honest. I guess if someone wants to identify as a mother, they are welcome to it, if they give birth, so not sure I see a problem. Still interesting how anything can be spun this way....

That's the main thrust. Be careful with the link below though, as not gender critical supportive in the main if you want to see the full article:

medium.com/@notCursedE/the-uk-rules-mothers-is-a-gender-neutral-term-c91d6e75b486

Slight tangent but related - 'womxn' was trending on Twitter for a short while yesterday as, according to the gender specific police, it wasn't inclusive enough.

So a term that was basically created by them isn't good enough now as it differentiates between women - adult human females and womxn - a group that includes men and women.

It is of course utter nonsense but this and the MOMA fall out shows that they want all the words.

Though I would have preferred 'pregnant woman' I'm ok with 'pregnant mother' as I do consider women who are pregnant to already be mothers, as in, if you miscarry your are a mother as you had life inside you, but then you could apply that to women who have abortions ...but that isn't relevant to the subject of the bill which was maternity leave so...pregnant woman would have been better but pregnant mother will do.

See how reasonable I can be?

I like the self righting lifeboat analogy.

I think part of the confusion is due to how gender critical views are (deliberately) misrepresented. I have seen claims that imply that GC feminists think gender is binary. That we are outraged by the idea of "gender neutral potatoes". That we are all obsessed with rigid stereotypes etc.
Of course it's the opposite!

But so many people skim read the issue and avoid looking too hard. So they believe what they are told; that gc feminists are the baddies obsessed with gender stereotypes and that JKR "hates trans people" and all that bollocks.

"Gender neutrality" is perhaps a good angle to approach this from. Because it appeals to those who don't follow the issue closely but think of themselves as "reasonable", who might otherwise swallow the narrative that GC feminists are bigoted meanies.

Most people (except for the religious right and the most extreme TWAW types) agree that kids should be able to play with whatever toys they like, that clothes don't define people, that women can be good at maths and men can be good at baking etc.
The vast majority of people also know deep down (even if they claim it's oh so terribly complicated) what the difference between men and women is. They know which people become pregnant.

Once you get past the spin and dissembling, I truly believe most people (even those denouncing GC feminism) agree with us on most issues. But they have been lied to about what GC feminism is.

@ErrolTheDragon

Haha, bet she loves knowing LTBT was dreamt up here on MN (possibly even in FWR?)

Yes, it came about from an MN FWR thread

I thought it started off the back of a Chat or AIBU thread then migrated to FWR? But it was a while ago so I might be wrong.

You might be right, Medusa... MN feminists, whichever board it started on.

That's the main thrust. Be careful with the link below though, as not gender critical supportive in the main if you want to see the full article

I have to laugh. Is there a perception that women who post on this board aren't a) willing and actively reading whatever they can to get as much information as they can and b) are needing to be protected from adverse opinion.

Our 'safe spaces' are not 'safe from critical thought and a diversity of opinion spaces'! We are NOT the ones who are so fragile that we will never read the actual document but only a safely sanitised version that is acceptable to the community.

@ErrolTheDragon

You might be right, Medusa... MN feminists, whichever board it started on.

Absolutely. 😊

If 'mothers' is a gender neutral term, no trans man will find it triggering.
Likewise 'breastmilk' which is produced by mothers breasts, or 'breastfeeding' which is how mothers feed their babies.

Only trans men and women are affected by this 'legal decision'.

Is Mother now a Gender Neutral Term

I am more than happy for gender stuff to apply to either sex. Obviously a woman can present as whichever of the 100+ genders as she wants, her sex is still female and only women can give birth.

Anyway, lovely that everyone seems to be happy. 'Mother' is gender neutral and sex specific. I wonder if for the next piece of all-round happiness there will be realisation that the word 'breast' is both gender and sex neutral and breast feeding is gender neutral and sex specific.

Be whatever 'gender' you want. Throw off the shackles of gender stereotypes. Just don't submit to delusions re the realities of sex.

I, too, would be very happy if the words 'breastfeeding' were considered gender neutral too.

Seems only logical...

@Winesalot

That's the main thrust. Be careful with the link below though, as not gender critical supportive in the main if you want to see the full article

I have to laugh. Is there a perception that women who post on this board aren't a) willing and actively reading whatever they can to get as much information as they can and b) are needing to be protected from adverse opinion.

Our 'safe spaces' are not 'safe from critical thought and a diversity of opinion spaces'! We are NOT the ones who are so fragile that we will never read the actual document but only a safely sanitised version that is acceptable to the community.

Hello, this is Pothole's butler speaking. I regret to inform you that the mistress will be unable to call on you today. Regrettably she's had to take to her bed after clicking on the link and being called "a spoon" by the rakehell. Her sensitive nature could not bear such insult.

Pothole

Thank you, Pothole's Butler, that is all we need to know.

I wonder if for the next piece of all-round happiness there will be realisation that the word 'breast' is both gender and sex neutral and breast feeding is gender neutral and sex specific. Oh dear, this is going to upset a lot of people.

bold fail

But transgender men and non binary “people” are women (biological females), they must be recorded on the birth certificate as mothers because men cannot give birth. The legal definition of a woman is surely “biological female” and not a gender neutral term. And non binary female and trans man will just be calling themselves biological women if they call themselves mother, I’m not fussed about biological females calling themselves females

Regrettably she's had to take to her bed after clicking on the link and being called "a spoon" by the rakehell. Her sensitive nature could not bear such insult.

Such violence! I hope her fainting couch was nearby, to cushion her understandable collapse after witnessing such vitriol?

Good afternoon. Fortunately, I can reply in the affirmative. We all know how delicate the lady of the house is, so we have them dotted around where she tends to linger with her phone to read MN or twitter instead of directing us with the housework.

I strongly advise that you seek out a bowdlerised edition of the author's pamphlet if you are curious about its contents, for your own health.

Kind regards,

Butler

Not "a spoon"! such words are likely to disturb the stoutest heart.

Agree that it's not an issue that mother is "gender neutral", as long as it isn't sex neutral

@ErrolTheDragon

Anyway, lovely that everyone seems to be happy. 'Mother' is gender neutral and sex specific. I wonder if for the next piece of all-round happiness there will be realisation that the word 'breast' is both gender and sex neutral and breast feeding is gender neutral and sex specific.

Be whatever 'gender' you want. Throw off the shackles of gender stereotypes. Just don't submit to delusions re the realities of sex.

It will certainly be useful to point to their rejoicing at the wording used in this bill and their recognition that a specific word tied to the biological function of the female sex is acceptable because it includes all genders.

No need to campaign anymore against the words we need to describe our bodies and its functions - they are fully inclusive of all females, no matter how they identify.

Its not that big a step from there to understanding that "woman" is just another gender-neutral term, because it is merely the sex designator for adult humans of the female sex, which has nothing at all in its definition that requires adherence to one sex of sex stereotypes and sex role stereotypes over another.

There is no one way to be a woman: feminine, masculine, both, neither or anyone of those 100+ identities focused on sex stereotypes, if these are female individuals, they're all womaning right. Because the only requirement for being a woman is belonging to the female sex class.