The editor of P News can't take what he dishes

[PikesPeaked]

He's perfectly happy for a powerful group to decide upon the lives of an oppressed group, without any consultation with or input from the oppressed group - but when it affects him, when he's a member of the oppressed group, suddenly it's not right.

Yes, Ben, it's not right.

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/anger-over-ridiculous-bbc-panel-discussion-on-whether-jews-are-ethnic-minority-1.512426

Oh dear god.

Imagine if I was Black and four white people were asked to judge if I was a member of an ethnic minority. It would be as offensive.”

Um....

Oh dear....

It really proves it doesn't it? No capacity for critical thought at all.

Wow.

Imagine if I was Black and four white people were asked to judge if I was a member of an ethnic minority. It would be as offensive

As can be clearly seen in the screen grab it was not four white people who were judging him. But surely just he and the Jewish presenter could have the discussion so I can see why he was pissed off.

Having said that I was also surprised that the news about the new Scottish Labour leader was being reported everywhere as being the first ethnic minority leader of a political party. Has no-one heard of Disraeli? There's a very useful Wikipedia page with a list of Jewish politicians and both the Conservative and the Liberals had Jewish leaders long before the Labour Party did.

Having said that I was also surprised that the news about the new Scottish Labour leader was being reported everywhere as being the first ethnic minority leader of a political party.

I think the Woke require a perpetual Year Zero to show how incredibly racist etc everyone else is. They need it to be the case that everyone in history until them was completely unenlightened.

You can expect continued excitement every time we get a female Prime Minister, black newsreader, gay athlete...

(Personally I'm of the age where I remember getting a male Prime Minister for the first time in my memory and thinking it weird. "Prime Minister" was just a naturally female-associated job...)

Just a total, unreal lack of self-awareness.

I understand why he was annoyed and sympathise. It's the fact he can't see the comparison with women's rights. No self-awareness at all.

Wtf?! You could not make this shit up.

Of course he can see the comparison. He just chooses not to declare it out loud. See also how he knows perfectly well what a woman is when he’s looking for a surrogate. He knows the realities but only gives a shit when it affects him.

He is so close, I agree with him that just because there is representation in politics doesn't mean anti semitism is still a huge problem, I also agree that having the discussion with non Jewish people was thoughtless.

I don't see why he needs to bring black people into it as a comparison, it's unnecessary and I feel really uncomfortable that in less than a week Mumsnet has made me agree with Rand Paul and Ben Cohen, WTF are you doing to me! 😭

Ben, Ben, Ben.

@Mollyollydolly

I understand why he was annoyed and sympathise. It's the fact he can't see the comparison with women's rights. No self-awareness at all.

Yes, agree.

He is so close, I agree with him that just because there is representation in politics doesn't mean anti semitism is still a huge problem, I also agree that having the discussion with non Jewish people was thoughtless.

He isn't close. That would require him to see women as actual human beings.

I also agree that having the discussion with non Jewish people was thoughtless. Why? That's more of the odd compartmentalising of people - only gay actors can act gay roles, black translators translate books of black authors etc.

If a segment of society keeps itself to itelsf, denies wider discusssion then it is going to become more and more unknown and unknowable. And that leads straight to increased xenophobia!

Is Ed miliband Jewish? In which case, surely there’s been two previous ethnic minority leaders of political parties not just Disraeli

Having said that I was also surprised that the news about the new Scottish Labour leader was being reported everywhere as being the first ethnic minority leader of a political party.

Even without the ignoring of Disraeli and Miliband, it's still an odd thing to boast about.

You might disagree with their politics, but Rishi Sunak and Priti Patel have far more influence as Chancellor and Home Secretary than the leader of a party that has 1 Westminster MP and is only the 3rd largest party in the Scottish Parliament.

I agree GC its a perfect parallel.

Non jewish people discussing how Jewish people should feel without asking Jewish people is exactly the same as men discussing how women feel without asking women.

If he had a little more self awareness he would see that which is why he is so close but just misses the point completely.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

I also agree that having the discussion with non Jewish people was thoughtless. Why? That's more of the odd compartmentalising of people - only gay actors can act gay roles, black translators translate books of black authors etc.

If a segment of society keeps itself to itelsf, denies wider discusssion then it is going to become more and more unknown and unknowable. And that leads straight to increased xenophobia!

Its not that non Jewish people were included in the conversation it was that no Jewish people were included in the conversation about Jewish people. Which is what OP saw as so hypocritical of a man who is always passing judgment on women without actually consulting women.

The problem is not insularity, the problem is exclusion.

Standard antisemitic rhetoric coming out of the left really. Perhaps Cohen hasn't been paying attention since he's too busy finding a surrogate? He is right though, in the sense that minorities can't win - they're either successful and need "putting back in their place", or in need of patronising affirmative action programmes. The whole reason Nazis were so able to turn Christian Germans against their Jewish German neighbours is because many people were resentful of financial success. AS they obviously still are. His positions on this issue do contradict his trans rights position, but that doesn't make him wrong on this point. It's also worth mentioning that of course you can convert to Judaism, as indeed he believes you can "convert" to being a woman. So in his mind maybe you can acquire the female point of view, as you can acquire the Jewish point of view.

Although you can only take parallels so far, some parallels are obvious:

• the belief that antisemitism can't exist because some Jewish people have money or power - equality can be compassionately doled out to 'the most marginalised', but must never threaten the status quo.

• the attempt to claim that antisemitism doesn't exist by claiming that Judaism is a religion and not an ethnicity/race, as though not practicing somehow protects Jewish people from anti-semitism.

“whether you practiced or you were not practising you still faced murder by the Nazis.”

Same for women - we cannot identify our way out of female infanticide, fgm, rapes, forced marriage etc irrespective of whether we are practising feminity or feel different inside or not.

Whereas male bodied people can change out of the dress and voila...

@sashagabadon

Is Ed miliband Jewish? In which case, surely there’s been two previous ethnic minority leaders of political parties not just Disraeli

Jewish Political Party Leaders: Benjamin Disraeli (Tory PM) Herbert Samuel (Liberal Leader) Michael Howard (Conservative Leader) Ed Milliband (Labour Leader)

@HermitsLife The problem is not insularity, the problem is exclusion.

My point was that at the moment those two usually very disparate concepts are beginning to coalesce!

And there were 2 Jewish people in that discussion!

Ms Coburn asked: “Benjamin, isn’t there a wider point that actually perhaps the fact that Angela Rayner didn’t immediately recognise previous Jewish political leaders in her tweet underlines the fact that many Jews have succeeded in reaching high political office, and therefore don’t need to be seen as a group needing recognition in the same way as others?”

Perhaps the wider point is that Angela Rayner is thick and doesn't let facts get in the way of empty point scoring?

Have just watched this segment. The other panellists were there because they had been invited on to discuss other topics in the rest of the show.

It was then really awkward because their views were asked, but they didn't have anything relevant to say about this topic.

The presenter tried to create a debate by making points that weren't defensible, but were also confusing because nobody had suggested they were.

It was all really embarrassing, but I think the thing that drove the embarrassment was the format which was designed to create a short segment with a bit of conflict, not explore any of the issues.