Any Canadians out there who want a thread?

[MedicineHat]

I'm not sure if I've been spending too much time on here and making myself feel more positive about the situation, but it was recently reinforced to me how dire our situation as women is here in Canada. I know Canada pops up sometimes on here but I wondered if anyone fancies an ongoing Canada thread?

Aboriginal issues are extremely complicated, I don't know that that element has much to do with being progressive or not.

Where it has become a problem is that, much like gender, is that there is a very tight narrative that is being allowed to be presented to people. That's both in terms of very grass roots problems, like addiction problems or economic issues on reserves, and also in terms of higher level political questions, such as how to deal with land rights or where First Nations government fits into the wider society. In some of these there are no clear solutions and in others there is a lot of disagreement about what is best and right.

The tendency among the media is to present only facts that fit into the narrative they want to push. The tendency among political parties has been to use these questions in a way that ultimately supports the issues or image they want to project. I was a Green Party member for a number of years, and I've been really disgusted with their approach to First Nations environmental questions like pipelines, basically painting themselves as the only ones who are looking out for and listening to First Nations communities which of course are anti-pipeline.

Except they aren't. I'm anti-pipeline and would be happy enough if it were true, but it isn't, most aboriginal communities have a variety of views and more than a few are really divided about it - just like everyone else. Flipping Elizabeth May going around presenting herself as the champion of First Nations people, and pipeline supporters as ignoring them, is pretty disgusting and IMO actually deeply racist, but very typical of the political discourse on the left. Present yourself as representing a marginalised group and you can claim a lot of credibility.

The Greens also lost the plot with sex work, gender issues, and even became less nuanced around issues like childcare. All because they are working according to an identity paradigm.

@MedicineHat

Abitofalark I think it has something to do with the size of Canada and its provinicial/federal structure. There's a lot tgat differs across the country and that results in incohesiveness and practically speaking it makes it hard to organize.

I also think that Canada is not nearly as 'progressive' as it wants the world to think. You only need to look at our treatment of Aboriginal people in Canada to see this.

I can see how that might impede action or organisation. We are seeing problems in the UK as a result of devolution, with Scotland in particular introducing, laws and administrative arrangements affecting women, including for example the definition of woman, which in effect, could erode the protection of the UK-wide law on equality. Of course discussion about this tends to be happening mostly in Scotland rather than in the UK Parliament in Westminster and national UK media but thanks to the existence of mumsnet, women have been enabled to expose and discuss these moves more widely.

I think Aboriginal issues are relevant when we are talking about progressive politics in Canada. A large component of progressive politics here is the notion of this being kind, accepting of different ways of being and living. People feel they are progressive when they are accepting. The reality is that there is widespread intolerance of Indigenous ways of being and knowing throughout all levels of Canadian society.

^Aboriginal issues are extremely complicated, I don't know that that element has much to do with being progressive or not.

Where it has become a problem is that, much like gender, is that there is a very tight narrative that is being allowed to be presented to people.^

I appreciate we're off feminism and onto a tangent now, but I agree with this. The pipeline issue is a well-known example. Another less well-known example is that people who wanted to speak at the TRC about their positive experiences of residential schools were not allowed to. I am not defending the residential school system, nor denying that terrible abuse happened, but the narrative that they were all entirely awful places run by awful people is false (see Tomson Highway's comments on his experience).

I think there are parallels here with the concept of Two Spirit, which has been coopted by the trans movement and used in Canada to legitimize it. From what I've read, traditionally being two spirit did not mean that you were literally seen as the other sex or that you were welcome in women's spaces. But it's become part of FN lore fed to us by government and MSM that they were so progressive on gender. (In fact a lot of older First Nations people are incredibly socially conservative, but that doesn't fit the narrative).

I think there are parallels here with the concept of Two Spirit, which has been coopted by the trans movement and used in Canada to legitimize it. From what I've read, traditionally being two spirit did not mean that you were literally seen as the other sex or that you were welcome in women's spaces. But it's become part of FN lore fed to us by government and MSM that they weresoprogressive on gender. (In fact a lot of older First Nations people are incredibly socially conservative, but that doesn't fit the narrative)

I agree. I can see why this happens. There is often solidarity between marginalized groups