Home Office women driven out of mixed lavatories

[yourhairiswinterfire]

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www.thetimes.co.uk/article/home-office-women-driven-out-of-mixed-lavatories-qjclblb9f?shareToken=e977d37b828b65508de8b5e2d7864088

Women in the Home Office are having to visit other departments to use the toilet, because so many of the building’s facilities are unisex.

£40,000 was spent in 2018 to convert ten toilets into unisex facilities, without consultation.

Women were distressed by men leaving the doors open whilst using the toilet, and signs were put up asking men to close the doors.

“I have launched a review to establish the best way to deliver this as a priority and make sure that women can expect a sense of dignity, security and safety when using facilities,” Jenrick said in October. “We want to maintain safeguards that protect women and the proper provision of separate toilets.”

@langclegflavoredbananamush

I know. If only they'd bothered asking in the first place, they'd have saved themselves a lot of time and money.

I'd like to know what percentage of those women, if they had been asked before, would have said they would be fine with it, and then after actually having dealt with it are making the trips to queue up by the single sex loos...

Before you take down a fence, find out why it was initially erected...

The toilets in the HO were changed years ago. Half the toilets are mixed sex and half are single sex so don't have to go to other departments for single sex toilets. However, the Home office shares a building with communities and local government and DEFRA so may be quicker to pop to their loos.

so it's a tad misleading. saying that having experienced them the unisex loos can be very uncomfortable and have had men not shutting the cubicle doors

How much is the review going to cost?

And really, a review? It's cause and effect.

I am sure I completed a submission about toilets recently. The blurb about the submission clearly knew what the issues were for women to the extent that I thought they'd been on FWR board and they were now looking at how to address the problems. Does anyone remember?

@AlecTrevelyan006

Any bloke will tell you that when a man uses a cubicle to pee, he doesn’t close the door behind him.

Anyone responsible for toilet provision should be aware of this

How often does a man use a cubicle to pee? Surely that's what urinals are for. The issue here appear to be that in the absence of urinals, the men are using the cubicles in the same way - back to the room, why bother shutting the door? Forgetting in the process that the toilets they are in are no longer the exclusively male spaces they are familiar with and that women who are now forced to share with them have different rules of toilet etiquette.

Separate facilities has been the norm for 2,000 years and has worked well. Why are people so insistent on turning everything upon its head? Why too is this happening under a Conservative government? I'd expect this of the Lib Dems, Labour, SNP etc. but I thought that the Conservatives stood for traditional values - it's their bloody name!

I wonder how many times a man would have to see a woman in a cubicle with the door wide open changing a tampon before they learn to close the damn door?

Oh wait, it would never happen because we are not inconsiderate barbarians.

the comments on the article are brilliant though....

I am just waiting for someone (probably on twitplace) to complain that not having urinals in women's toilets is you know, phobic, because some women can pee standing up.

I phrased that carefully, hopefully carefully enough.

I had the exact same experience in gender neutral toilets. Walked in and a guy was peeing with the door wide open. Even worse, when I went into the next cubicle, he heard me in there and began knocking on the door and chatting me up! He was asking me where I was from, what was I doing that night etc. It was really scary, and when I complained to management they just shrugged and said the toilets were unisex so nothing could be done.This was in a bar/restaurant, by the way.

I just noticed that Liverpool Pride are asking for opinions on toilets. I'm sure they would love to hear some of your opinions...

www.lcrpride.co.uk/bogstandard/

Shouldn't there be an equality impact assessment before changes are made?

I am just waiting for someone (probably on twitplace) to complain that not having urinals in women's toilets is you know, phobic, because some women can pee standing up.

This has been suggested before. I'm sure it will be again.

I can never read the comments on these articles, not sure if it's my phone.

I get the same. It works on chrome if I copy and paste the link

Civil servants get shiny awards for "the introduction of gender neutral toilets", which we all know is a euphemism for mixed-sex.
This was at the DofE but no doubt the whole civil service have been subject to policy capture. Nolan principles anyone?

www.stonewall.org.uk/people/senior-champion-year-2019-jonathan-slater

I am just waiting for someone (probably on twitplace) to complain that not having urinals in women's toilets is you know, phobic, because some women can pee standing up.

This has been suggested before. I'm sure it will be again.

A cafe I love has 2 unisex loos, one has a urinal, it bloody stinks. I can pee standing up, but would never, ever consider using a urinal.

[quote OnlyBejoking]I just noticed that Liverpool Pride are asking for opinions on toilets. I'm sure they would love to hear some of your opinions...

www.lcrpride.co.uk/bogstandard/[/quote]
Thanks, I have completed that.

Completed the survey...What is your gender...Is this the gender you were assigned at birth...

Why are Liverpool Pride even doing a survey about toilets? Everyone uses them not just LBGT people. Any survey should be inclusive of the whole population surely?

@zanahoria

If women hate these toilets so much they they go to another building, what more does he need to know?

Indeed. There's your survey, pal.

When I was at university (Oxford, 1990) the loos in my college accommodation were mixed sex. I accidentally walked in on a man peeing with the door open and he followed me back to my room and wrote ‘dyke’ all over my door.

I absolutely lose my shit with dh if he ever fails to lock the door and I think this is why.

Why are Liverpool Pride even doing a survey about toilets? Everyone uses them not just LBGT people. Any survey should be inclusive of the whole population surely?

I assumed it was for the general population and they were surveying for facilities provided at Pride events. I didn't read that much into it tbh, just took it as another outlet to suggest common sense from a women's POV.

I am sure I completed a submission about toilets recently. .... Does anyone remember?

Highame, yes, that was the Technical review on increasing accessibility and provision of toilets for men and women, by the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government.

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/toilet-provision-for-men-and-women-call-for-evidence/toilet-provision-for-men-and-women-call-for-evidence

I found out about it here on Mumsnet, of course -- the best source I know for information about political issues affecting women's rights.

The toilets consultation is still open, till 26 February. You can send your comments to [email protected]

Although it's called a 'technical review', it seems open for (non-technical) responses about the value of single-sex facilities, the problems with gender-neutral loos, and the need to maintain separate disabled toilets for people with disabilities -- not as a space for anyone who wants to use them.

This call for evidence launches a technical review of provision of toilets for men and women.

Women often have to face excessive queues for toilets or don’t have access to appropriate facilities that meet their needs when out. In some cases this can mean women are reluctant to go out or take trips that many take for granted.

Over recent years there has also been a trend towards replacing female only facilities with gender neutral toilets.

The review aims to address this by considering the ratio of female toilets needed versus the number for men, given the need for women to always use cubicles. It would also take into account the needs of all members of the community, to ensure there is a fair provision of accessible and gender-neutral toilets.

The review will also look at signage, which should be clearer and use gender-specific language, to avoid confusion.

@Bells3032

The toilets in the HO were changed years ago. Half the toilets are mixed sex and half are single sex so don't have to go to other departments for single sex toilets. However, the Home office shares a building with communities and local government and DEFRA so may be quicker to pop to their loos.

so it's a tad misleading. saying that having experienced them the unisex loos can be very uncomfortable and have had men not shutting the cubicle doors

Half the toilets are mixed sex = men’s loos now then. Half are single sex - so half of those for men, half of those for women. End result: men have three-quarters and women one-quarter of the toilet provision in that building. And as women take longer to use the loo ... etc etc.