Positive Birth Company

[YorkshireGirl35]

Hi

Before I start I just want to say that I never really start threads on mumsnet and I am nowhere near as clued up on feminist issues as many of you are.

I just wondered if anyone else followed the Positive Birth Company and has seen that they are now getting behind the whole “Chest feeding” thing. I’m already angry about this subject and many of the things that have been happening, such as my favourite author being ripped to pieces, but this feels like a joke. The whole reason I’ve paid for their course and materials is because they seemed like they were all about female empowerment and making informed birth choices. Clearly not!

What also annoys me is that you can’t even say you disagree with things like this on a Facebook post incase someone decides to tell your employers that you are a TERF! I’ve already seen posts on there saying that women are not entitled to have a view on the subject unless they are trans.

I don’t know what the point of my post is really, just find it depressing that this is the way things are going. Especially when I’m expecting a daughter soon.

Best wishes for the birth, OP. I would want my money back, as I would have little faith in any advice from someone who thinks you feed a baby from your chest. I hope it didn’t cost much. With luck, these dimwits won’t stay in business long, as they clearly have no empathy with their clients.

Can you cancel and get your money back?

@thinkingaboutLangCleg

Best wishes for the birth, OP. I would want my money back, as I would have little faith in any advice from someone who thinks you feed a baby from your chest. I hope it didn’t cost much. With luck, these dimwits won’t stay in business long, as they clearly have no empathy with their clients.

Ask for a refund based on this.

The details about their postpartum pack shows they clearly know it’s mother’s who breastfeed. They are paying lip service to trans inclusivity.

Allegedly!

Really? That's surprising. I've seen the founder of the Positive Birth Movement post on Twitter defending women-centred language and get decried as a TERF for it. Maybe she had a change of heart.

The Positive Birth Book does have a short trans section and if I recall correctly kind of says you should call these things whatever you're comfortable with but it still refers to women and breastfeeding throughout. If that makes sense. I thought it was a good way of being inclusive without erasing women and recognising that the majority of people who give birth want to be referred to as a woman/mother.

The Positive Birth Company and the Positive Birth Movement are two different organisations.

I've just looked at the post on Instagram along with the caption and comments. The more I read and try to understand, the more angrier I get.

Oh ok, I think I thought PBC and the PBB were the same thing. They're not. It's the author of the PBB I was referring to.

As you were!

@Soontobe60

The details about their postpartum pack shows they clearly know it’s mother’s who breastfeed. They are paying lip service to trans inclusivity.

This is encouraging. I would still go along to it. I know people who work in breastfeeding support who feel strongly about being female centered in their approach and language, but have been pressurised into including these terms in public (they would of course treat someone who wanted to use those terms with respect and use the language they had asked for, but feel disheartened at the push to erase women centered language)

The positive birth company have always been problematic. Starting with piggybacking on the Positive Birth Movement by choosing such a similar name, and a few months ago posted an anti breastfeeding rant on Facebook and proceeded to block anyone who tried to give an evidence based rebuttal (not necessarily pro-breastfeeding, just not outright lies!). So I’m not surprised that they’re going all in for chest feeding.

If you can try and find a local Positive Birth Movement meet-up. Firstly because all the groups that have decided Milli Hill is the wrong kind of feminist have distanced themselves from the name so you’ll probably be in good company and secondly because they’re usually run by really passionate and well informed women. Read the Positive Birth book and the Positive Breastfeeding Book which will really help. And if you can’t get a refund, the Hypnobirthing bit of the PBC will be useful.

And in terms of breastfeeding, when you’re in the hospital, press your buzzer every single time you even need a tiny bit of help. Don’t let anyone fob you off. Get breastfeeding sorted before you go home and stay an extra day if you aren’t confident yet, they really can’t kick you out!

If you can try and find a local Positive Birth Movement meet-up. Firstly because all the groups that have decided Milli Hill is the wrong kind of feminist have distanced themselves from the name

Does this have anything to do with the fact that Milli Hill announced earlier this week that PBM groups are disbanding? (Not the groups themselves but the umbrella org).

Get a refund and tell them why.

I find this trend really concerning it is so easy to be sweet along. I am a Doula and a lot of the things I read are slowly using fewer female terms in an attempt to be more inclusive. I makes me very sad.

Any links to the theory that the PBM groups have decided that Milli Hill was the wrong kind of feminist?

@teezletangler

If you can try and find a local Positive Birth Movement meet-up. Firstly because all the groups that have decided Milli Hill is the wrong kind of feminist have distanced themselves from the name

Does this have anything to do with the fact that Milli Hill announced earlier this week that PBM groups are disbanding? (Not the groups themselves but the umbrella org).

More likely because Milli Hill started charging group leaders to run groups and lockdown means less people willing to pay to run online groups. Just a guess but most of these things come down to money.

Well, for being inclusive, it's a heck of a lot of work to accommodate 0.3% of the population.
When only women can be pregnant and give birth and breastfeed.

@teezletangler

If you can try and find a local Positive Birth Movement meet-up. Firstly because all the groups that have decided Milli Hill is the wrong kind of feminist have distanced themselves from the name

Does this have anything to do with the fact that Milli Hill announced earlier this week that PBM groups are disbanding? (Not the groups themselves but the umbrella org).

No I don’t think so, she was talking about slowly doing this a year ago. My local PBM group re-branded in May last year. They’re a mixed bag... one of the leaders is all “birthing parents” and the other starts every post with “Hi mamas!” and doesn’t engage with the so called inclusive language. I think Milli is writing a book for young women about periods now and doesn’t have the time to run the positive birth movement anymore.

I used them for my first pregnancy and loved the materials, but they’re so woke it’s ridiculous. I’ve posted on the post you mention on the FB page and have been called a TERF.

I think what I found so rage inducing was the way they posted this as a done deal - here’s the new language and you all have to be ok with it, if you’re not you’re clearly transphobic. They don’t have any idea of their market at all.

Interestingly my post has a huge amount of likes, so I’m clearly not the only person who is not happy.

I find this trend really concerning it is so easy to be sweet along. I am a Doula and a lot of the things I read are slowly using fewer female terms in an attempt to be more inclusive. I makes me very sad.

Have noticed this creeping in very recently online with lots of people who were previously WTF/uninterested in "gender inclusivity".

There's a midwife called Leah Hazard who wrote a bestselling midwifery memoir last year and is now writing a book about the uterus (which sounds great!). But suddenly she is referring a lot to "people with uteruses" on Instagram, whereas a few months ago she probably would have used women. She got a bit shirty with someone who said they found it offensive, "not everyone who has a uterus is a woman etc" . Apparently she'll be using 'women' and 'PWU' in her book. I wonder if there is pressure from the publisher to be inclusive or if she's taken a look at the lay of the land on social media and decided she'd better get onside with the Woke.

Sorry about this OP, it's really sad.

I'd write a strongly worded letter about why you don't want to be involved, you want your money back and you want your not-yet-born daughter to be proud and safe being a girl then woman as she grows.

I'm furious about all this.

If you felt like going anonymously to the Times with the story afterwards I would t blame you!

If nothing else it's false advertising or changing the terms of the agreement and you should get a refund.

I went and had a look on their Facebook page after reading this thread last night and it was full of GC comments and questions. This morning, they've deleted the lot. A poster who called women 'trash', 't--fs' and 'c-s bitches' has had the courtesy of a direct response from PBC apologising for the mod team not having been available straight away

Thanks everyone I’m glad I’m not alone in my thoughts here. I’ve asked them for a refund and had a load of woke waffle back about how they are pro women etc.
I’ve also had my comments from their post deleted, I didn’t say anything remotely offensive or aggressive. As @MotherWitch has said above they seemed to almost apologise to the person who called everyone offensive names and just deleted the rest of us. Sums it up!

I've never written on the feminism board before, but read it a lot. I am all for people who don't feel like they're in the right body doing what they got to do and calling themselves whatever gender they like. More power to them!

However, I agree with pps whole heartedly, I feel like women (in the original/traditional whatever you want to refer to it without being offensive way) are being eradicated. Why is it ok to say chest feeding to include "men" with chests who want to feed, but not ok to say breast feeding. I don't chest feed my child, I used my breasts. Why are we/the majority not being included to placate the minority? I don't understand?

Men also have breast tissue by the by, and can get breast cancer. Therefore why can it just be referred to as breast feeding? Surely that is inclusive enough? As it's anatomically correct for everyone?

I'm getting more and more frightened of what's happening to women. But it seems it's not ok to voice this!