Pronouns

[JellySlice]

I recognise that we neither have a MN hive mind, nor a uniform position on pronouns. For those for whom pronouns matter, have you noticed that MNers are more likely to use feminine pronouns for more feminine-appearing TW? Similarly masculine pronouns for more masculine-appearing TM. And this does not relate to how accepting or rejecting of biological reality they are.

Eg Blair White and Laverne Cox - ‘she’. Buck Angel and Stephen Whittle - ‘he’.

I'm hard-line no on false pronouns when I'm aware of the sex of the person in question. That includes people who 'pass' like Blaire White. If I was in a situation like that I would just use their name so as to avoid offending anyone. In all honesty I would probably just avoid any person who was the type to be narcissistic enough to make those sorts of demands of people.

I've spent my entire life saying "she" for people who look like women, "he" for people who look like men, and feeling uncomfortable and fudging it on the rare occasions when I'm not sure. It's cognitively much easier to use she for a transwoman who looks a lot like a woman than for one who doesn't, because that's what our brains are used to doing.

I feel uncomfortable with pronouns being a 'reward' - whether that be for someone's effort/luck in passing or because someone isnt a misogynistic arsehole.

I think it's partly due to me seeing phrases like 'run/jump/throw/cry like a girl' as insults. I feel like I've known for a long time that to call a boy a girl is a Bad Thing. It felt wrong then and it still does.

Online, I personally try to use names and/or initials and I try to be consistent to avoid any accidental wrongthink use of anything that could be deleted.

@nauticant

I try to go with "they" or their name. I expect using "they" in this way is a microaggression.

After writing that I thought I might check and hey presto:

For many trans/GNC people, gender is an important part of their identity and actively avoiding the act of gendering manifests as another form of violence—a violence that trans/GNC people have been fighting against throughout the long history of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, intersex, asexual and two-spirit (LGBTQIA2S) experience.

blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/actually-we-should-not-all-use-they-them-pronouns/

Expect to see the use of "they" becoming a hate crime, that is at the moment a trans person says they personally don't like it.

It's about control.

“Avoiding the act of gendering manifests as another form of violence”

They really are a sinister bunch! No concessions at all for the deeply held beliefs and convictions of others. We are to be forced to validate them however much it goes against our own conscience and mental well-being. Even if we try to find a compromise which avoids offending them by correctly sexing them but keeps true to our own perceptions that is still a form of “violence”.

It really isn’t about live and let live is it?

Personally I am not comfortable using a plural for a known person, it messes with my head. I would use the person’s name and find ways of avoiding pronouns. Generally I would do my best to avoid people who want to dictate to me the words I must use and do my best to avoid talking about any of them I can’t avoid.

It begins to feel like a new age of deference for a new ruling class.

I've never met Blaire White in person but I genuinely couldn't think of her as "he". It's not just politeness.

There was another TW who at the time I automatically called 'she'. Female name, wrote sensible stuff, it didn't occur to me not to.
But then as I learned more, I realised how much this person wasn't a woman. The writing wasn't for women's benefit other than tangentially - no reason why it should have been, of course, trans people are absolutely entitled to their own agendas. Using a female pronoun muddied motivations and understanding, and also I came to realise it was problematic for other women on this board in particular some of the trans widows. I realised it's massively discourteous to them to use female pronouns of someone who has been, or is, a husband. So on this board, I'm going to prioritise their feelings.

Still finding my way on this tbh. It's currently about how much cognitive dissonance it causes me more than any principled stand. Someone who doesn't even try to pass demanding pronouns may be more likely to trigger dissonance both subconsciously and because it feels more like they're doing it as a way of bullying.

I think of it as a case of treating someone else's religion respectfully. I will sit quietly in church and wear long sleeves if asked to. I won't say amen or cover my head, if those are a requirement I won't attend. And depending on circumstance, pronouns feels like sitting quietly or saying amen. The more people try to impose gender religion on us, the less willing I become to even go near the church, as it becomes a matter of conscience to stand up for nonbelief.