Call for action - women's sports

[MissLucyEyelesbarrow]

The British Kickboxing Council is planning to adopt an 'inclusive' training policy. Guess who they have consulted about this? Yup - Mermaids, Pride and other LGBT groups. Guess who they haven't consulted? Any women.

Kickboxing might seem niche, but it is a fantastic sport for women - it's fun, dynamic and you can compete at any level from couch potato (me) to pro. Many women participate in it without fighting (you can do it as a form of aerobics/strength-training without combat), but lots of others like to fight - it's generally very safe with few serious injuries for amateur competitors. But, of course, that relies on competitors being evenly matched. And who thinks that Mermaids are going to be advocating for women's safety? If this goes ahead, a fantastic, empowering, fun sport is going to be lost to women.

If you have 2 minutes, please give the Kickboxing Council your views via this link.

• Please be aware, responses to the Kickboxing Council are viewable by the public.

It’s a good job World Rugby did their research so publicly last year on this. It means we can challenge this sort of stuff with science.

I’m all for genuine inclusion. Sport should be for everyone, it’s just that nowadays, everyone seems to want to participate in women’s sport.

Don’t make the mistake I just did. I followed the link and filled in the form at the bottom of the page thinking it was a private response to the proposals, whereas it’s actually for publication on the website. Given the tactics employed by TRAs againt people putting forward GC views, I’ve emailed urgently to ask that they do not publish my response.

Haha they say "looking to hear from anyone who is not cisgender"
Well that's everyone here then!

Use a pseudonym on the form

Cisgender ffs!! 🙄🙄

@Artesia

Don’t make the mistake I just did. I followed the link and filled in the form at the bottom of the page thinking it was a private response to the proposals, whereas it’s actually for publication on the website. Given the tactics employed by TRAs againt people putting forward GC views, I’ve emailed urgently to ask that they do not publish my response.

Oh so sorry. I didn't realise or would have put a warning on. Will report to MN and ask them to add a warning to my OP.

No worries at all - they have come back quickly to say they won’t publish it. I’ve now found myself in a debate with the website person. They are apparently open to genuine discussion and feedback, so it’s well worth responding, but there was a lot about making people feel welcome and how if they don’t make changes then people who are now legally male could go to a women only class. I said that would be fine by me as they may be legally male but would retain the biological disadvantages bestowed by their natal sex.

My dh had an issue in u14 hockey as an umpire. On one team there was a boy who was so clearly stronger than all the girls playing. The coach of the boy who identified as a girl was determined that he should play or it was discrimination. The only thing my dh could do went it came to a penalty shot or a few other things was to refuse him to take the shot on the basis he had been flicking the ball above head height repeatedly and therefore dangerous to get around this without being called a transphobe. All the girls on the team thought it was so unfair, hated the game and didn't want to play. Great for girls sport.

Ironically, they are also promoting A Girl Can - the campaign to get more women playing sport

I have asked MNHQ to add a warning to my OP. I am still working on my own response to the Kickboxing Council, as I keep having to tone down the fury.

Sorry just ranted about a completely different sport as was really annoyed. This would be terrible for kickboxing, a sport which is valuable for girls and women to get involved in.

Done

There is a post in AIBU regarding women’s sport. You should put this link there too. Lots of people are learning.

Thanks for the heads up, will do this tomorrow.

Remember to ask them about their equality impact assessment, and if their insurance covers mixed sex kickboxing.

Done

Hi OP, good luck challenging this. I’ve had similar battles in my sport with British Cycling. They too promote This Girl Can and have their own women-only initiative (called Breeze) but all these activities are actually mixed sex. What’s worrying to me and other volunteers is that they don’t tell participants so a woman may turn up for a ride, and find she is alone with a male person rather than a woman as anticipated.

Anyway, I’ll send something into kickboxing via the link.

@WeAreJackieWeaver

It’s a good job World Rugby did their research so publicly last year on this. It means we can challenge this sort of stuff with science.

I’m all for genuine inclusion. Sport should be for everyone, it’s just that nowadays, everyone seems to want to participate in women’s sport.

Quite. It's funny how practically no trans men are queuing up to partake in men's sports, let alone contact sports.

Done - I did kickboxing in my youth and my children do too. Cited World Rugby findings and that I would withdraw my daughter from competing if competitions were based on gender rather than sex. Made up email and name but did state that I wasn’t sure if the form would go on the website so they won’t be able to respond to me.

It is a fantastic sport. I did spar with men but it was a safe environment and no one abused that. We had a strong coach who would not allow it. Competitions would be a different matter entirely.

What’s worrying to me and other volunteers is that they don’t tell participants so a woman may turn up for a ride, and find she is alone with a male person rather than a woman as anticipated.

This is even more important in kickboxing where likelihood of injury is self evident - are they going to tell the women competitors beforehand that their opponent is not a woman?

Where is the consent of women in this for an adult male to kick them in the head?

If they don’t consent - will they be deemed transphobic?

Interestingly they have been working with deaf people.

the-bkc.com/2019/05/08/uk-deaf-sport-partner-with-bkc/

This shows they are inclusive but working with minorities but it got me thinking about the ways in which we can tell someone's sex, by hearing someone's voice for example.

What would Magdalen do?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3695536-Magdalen-Berns-Boxing-Champion

Looks like they’ve updated the form-you can offer an comment /opinion anonymously.

So women are to get the shit beaten out of them by men, and people will be invited to pay to go and see it.

Perhaps The British Kickboxing Council will recommend that real women won't have to pay? We're being screwed enough, as it is.

I've filled this in - I've kickboxed for 25 years, sparred with men and women happily with touch/light contact.

I have also seen this issue appear in my local BJJ club where an individual has entered a woman only group and we now have many many photos of them covered in gold medals on top of the competition podium with women below them. I will not celebrate this cheating. BJJ is incredibly close contact which is why the women only group was formed as many women feel very vulnerable in grappling positions.

I would never agree to full contact against any man. Full contact is dangerous anyway- one punch to the wrong area and you could have a life ending injury. It has happened on several tragic occasions - but at least the individuals concerned knew and agreed to who they were fighting against.

Why would any sport choose to increase this risk? It would not be informed consent of the individual if they were not made aware that they were fighting someone who was opposite sex.

Did anyone get a reply?

I didn't, even after chasing...but I guess they were too busy speaking to that well known kickboxing expert, Susie Green.

twitter.com/thebkc/status/1377166255828787216?s=21