Edinburgh Facebook Group

[EdinburghFeminist]

I’m in a women’s Facebook group in Edinburgh. There are thousands of members and it’s a very nice and supportive group. Someone posted yesterday that they were looking at ways to combat misogyny and looking for suggestions.
Another poster commented about the SNP hate crime bill and was politely but firmly shut down and told that Trans people suffer even more than women by the OP.
I had really hoped that the thread would spark a useful conversation which would result in some awakening for some people. I’m so deflated that it was shut down so quickly - and that it was the OP who did it.
I have changed my screen name for this thread and I haven’t felt that I could be open on the FB thread either as my job could be a risk. I don’t really know why I’m posting to be honest other than to say I’m so depressed about it all just now!

Me too. I'm not sure how to do anything against what feels like an unstoppable juggernaut. If we wait for the May elections it'll be too late to do anything.

I've joined forwomen.scot as that makes me feel as though I'm not alone in feeling like this. Any other ideas @EdinburghFeminist ?

Me too.

I do't know who to vote for. No party seems to want to protect my rights to single sex spaces.

I think I know the group you might mean, OP. The one related to food items which come from a chicken? I'll have a look for the thread.

You could always play the innocent card

“Omg that’s terrible! I mean 2 women a week are murdered in the UK by their partners and TW are suffering worse than that?”

pointing out the actual reality might make them stop & think

Can you post Joanna Cherry's recent speech?

So sick of hearing that adult males suffer more than women.

I had similar last week, left the group and started my own where we’re safe to say what we want

Don’t they ever demonstrate proof of claims?

@Biscuitsanddoombar

You could always play the innocent card

“Omg that’s terrible! I mean 2 women a week are murdered in the UK by their partners and TW are suffering worse than that?”

pointing out the actual reality might make them stop & think

I think that's the best response. Maybe ask for some citations too, so you can do some reading and educate yourself...

I was in an Edinburgh Feminist FB group a while ago but it was taken over by TWAW. Women who disagreed were culled from the group. So depressing.
I actually emailed my SNP MSP last week telling him they had lost my vote because of their inability to support women's rights. He hasn't expressed a view publicly either way but has emailed to ask if he can call me in the next few days to discuss. Should be interesting

That's interesting, Buffy. I thought that SNP MPs all have to follow the party line on everything, rather than being allowed to represent their constituents?

@Bottwistle

That's interesting, Buffy. I thought that SNP MPs all have to follow the party line on everything, rather than being allowed to represent their constituents?

I want to hear what he has to say and more importantly I want him to hear what I have to say so he can feed it back to the rest of his colleagues. Fed up of politicians saying "nobody cares about this outside of Twitter". Like the people on Twitter don't exist in the real world too.

I’m in the same group... I’m pretty sure...

Compared to other Facebook groups I thought it was ok, if you read the whole thread. 2 women being murdered a week was brought up, just further down and safe spaces...

Honestly it went much better than anything like that does in other groups where comments are deleted and people kicked out for even hinting they’re not fully on board... and they’re things like hair care and recipe groups

It is depressing, I agree. That said, over the last year I have started tentatively having conversations with friends about these issues, and have been heartened that some of them share my concerns. I also donate to For Women Scotland.

@talkingdeadscot

Me too. I'm not sure how to do anything against what feels like an unstoppable juggernaut. If we wait for the May elections it'll be too late to do anything.

I've joined forwomen.scot as that makes me feel as though I'm not alone in feeling like this. Any other ideas @EdinburghFeminist ?

What a good idea, I’m off to join forwomen.scot too. The only other idea I had was to write to Sturgeon and our MSPs to say we will be voting against any party who is in favour of eroding women’s rights. Especially SNP MSPs and saying we will vote for whichever party is most likely to get them out so that they are forced to compromise - unfortunately the only party who is against these policies is the Tories who I’m really not keen to vote for, but it’s something I’m considering for this reason alone.

@tabulahrasa

I’m in the same group... I’m pretty sure...

Compared to other Facebook groups I thought it was ok, if you read the whole thread. 2 women being murdered a week was brought up, just further down and safe spaces...

Honestly it went much better than anything like that does in other groups where comments are deleted and people kicked out for even hinting they’re not fully on board... and they’re things like hair care and recipe groups

Yes it is the same group! You’re right that no-one was kicked out or anything but I suppose I just hoped for so much mor from a group of 25k women - that the discussion was just shut down. You are right though that the posts about femicide have stayed up at least and I think it was clear that that poster was GC - I already liked her but like her even more now!

@Procrastinator3

Can you post Joanna Cherry's recent speech?

I would love to but I fear it may ‘out’ me. I’m so angry that I need to be scared of voicing my opinion which is rooted in science. And I’m so exhausted by being angry all the time!

I find the page so so disheartening. Endless streams of places to sledge or dine in recommendations but actual conversation on empowering women is met with ‘be kind’. I wish I was more articulate to put my point forward but I don’t feel knowledgeable to go up against (and it feels like it would be an uphill issue) to such a large audience. I share for women Scot on my own page and articles but I guess I’m too worried of the backlash....

Edinburgh seems to be a hotbed of TRAs, as far as I can tell. Not sure why - except that it is generally a city full of particularly privileged people, and it seems easier for those insulated from life's sharp edges to buy into theories that aren't grounded in reality.

As has been said before, it's easy to dismiss women in prison, women in crowded NHS wards, other vulnerable groups if you don't have to really worry about earning a living, etc.

I tend to think there is at least a strand of trans ideology that is a reaction from the most privileged in society trying to claim a 'lower value' status and thus oppression. (Straight, white, posh males claiming they are more oppressed, vulnerable and deserving than women.)

This got a few ‘likes’ from my limited base of people a gentle intro to what I feel.... maybe start there @EdinburghFeminist
beajaspert.substack.com/p/lets-form-an-alliance?fbclid=IwAR324DTo0thg0Tay660rC8WSb9ieNnhVceFelkYzg7GUD9VAsQeDcggaLQE

EchidnasPhone love that link

[quote EchidnasPhone]This got a few ‘likes’ from my limited base of people a gentle intro to what I feel.... maybe start there @EdinburghFeminist
beajaspert.substack.com/p/lets-form-an-alliance?fbclid=IwAR324DTo0thg0Tay660rC8WSb9ieNnhVceFelkYzg7GUD9VAsQeDcggaLQE[/quote]
This is brilliant thanks for sharing!
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head for why I’m feeling so frustrated about that post today - so many women, so little urge to discuss women’s rights and issues, it’s about where to get afternoon tea or where to get your nails done etc. When I first saw that post pop up I was so hopefully and now I’m just depressed.
So glad to have found a couple of FWR members are on there though!

www.google.com/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/news/politics/nicola-sturgeon-backed-majority-snp-support-over-joanna-cherry-sacking-says-poll-3130975%3famp
I don't know how representative a sample of 1,000 is but

Almost 40 per cent (37 per cent) of Scots backed the general principle of GRA reform, the poll found, with just over one in four (26 per cent) opposing the moves by the SNP to bring in rules allowing transgender people to self-identify as the gender of their choice

A further 27 per cent said they had no opinion, with 10 per cent stating they did not know

Women are also more likely to back the plans than men despite concerns over the impact the proposals could have on single-sex spaces

A total of 44 per cent of women support the reform versus 16 per cent who don’t. A further 27 per cent said they had no opinion and 12 per cent said they didn’t know

Men were more likely to oppose the plans, with 35 per cent disagreeing with the plans, 29 per cent supporting them, 28 per cent holding no opinion and 8 per cent saying they didn’t

The figures come as SNP voters are shown to be twice as likely to back the sacking of Ms Cherry (32 per cent) than oppose it (13 per cent)

I live in Edinburgh and recently somebody put a sign up in my local park about women’s rights and some links. Not even any direct mention to the Gender recognition act. The shouting down it got on the park’s Facebook page was pretty depressing.

@MissBarbary

www.google.com/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/news/politics/nicola-sturgeon-backed-majority-snp-support-over-joanna-cherry-sacking-says-poll-3130975%3famp I don't know how representative a sample of 1,000 is but

Almost 40 per cent (37 per cent) of Scots backed the general principle of GRA reform, the poll found, with just over one in four (26 per cent) opposing the moves by the SNP to bring in rules allowing transgender people to self-identify as the gender of their choice

A further 27 per cent said they had no opinion, with 10 per cent stating they did not know

Women are also more likely to back the plans than men despite concerns over the impact the proposals could have on single-sex spaces

A total of 44 per cent of women support the reform versus 16 per cent who don’t. A further 27 per cent said they had no opinion and 12 per cent said they didn’t know

Men were more likely to oppose the plans, with 35 per cent disagreeing with the plans, 29 per cent supporting them, 28 per cent holding no opinion and 8 per cent saying they didn’t

The figures come as SNP voters are shown to be twice as likely to back the sacking of Ms Cherry (32 per cent) than oppose it (13 per cent)

The link isn’t working for me but I think it’s important to see what questions were asked when looking at surveys like this because regardless of how representative it is (and it’s perfectly possible to make a survey of 1000 people either representative or not depending on how you conduct it) the questions can be quite misleading, or not give the full picture.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/news/politics/nicola-sturgeon-backed-majority-snp-support-over-joanna-cherry-sacking-says-poll-3130975%3famp

This should work.

All of this is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned as my vote will always be for whoever will beat the SNP but sacking Cherry doesn't seem to be a big deal for SNP supporters.